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3 Hands vs. Aggros

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kmind

07-29-2009, 08:59 PM Post subject: 3 Hands vs. Aggros

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

I'm having trouble with the really aggressive guys playing "normal preflop" stats but going crazy postflop.

Hand 1. Right before the hand, this guy was playing 34/23/60% (3/5) aggression on the flop and 50% aggression on the turn with 50% also on the river. Not many hands at all but still enough to hint his aggressive side.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($62.10)
SB ($56)
BB ($90.95)
UTG ($71.60)
MP ($50.70)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10

, Q

3 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 2

, J

, Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $10, Hero calls $8

Turn: ($23.25) 8

(2 players)
BB bets $11.50, Hero calls $11.50

River: ($46.25) A

(2 players)
BB bets $22, Hero folds

Total pot: $46.25 | Rake: $2.30

Hand 2. This guy was playing 56/47/46% aggression on the flop 40% on the turn and 0 on the river over 50 hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($188.30)
CO ($54.75)
Button ($100)
SB ($50)
BB ($89.15)
Hero (UTG) ($50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q

, Q

Hero bets $1.75, 4 folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) K

, 4

, J

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $8, Hero raises to $22, BB calls $14

Turn: ($47.75) 5

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $26.25 (All-In), BB calls $26.25

River: ($100.25) 2

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $100.25 | Rake: $3

Hand 3. This guy was playing 25/15/44% on the flop, 38% on the turn and 33% on the river over a hundred hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($50.60)
Button ($65.45)
SB ($53.20)
BB ($35.80)
UTG ($101.95)
Hero (MP) ($77.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

, Q

1 fold, Hero bets $1.75, 1 fold, Button calls $1.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.25) 8

, 2

, 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $9.50, Hero calls $6.50

Turn: ($23.25) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero raises to $26, Button calls $16

River: ($75.25) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Total pot: $75.25 | Rake: $3

What should I do vs. the guys who are IP and raise and I have a decent hand with a shit ton of draws on there and they lead out really smallish on the turn?

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bikes

07-29-2009, 09:05 PM

#2 (permalink)

a hot damn mess
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 2,468

I feel like we can fold hand 1 on the flop. We're just gonna get value owned too many times and bluffed off when we actually have the best hand.

Hand 2 I would check back the turn. I really don't like our 3b as we're just turning our hand into a bluff and I don't think 3b/calling will be very profitable here.

Hand 3. WTF. This is awful. I hate every street. except preflop.

I dunno how much you pay attention to stats, but you should primarily be paying attention to like game flow and less to stats. It will help your reads tremoundously.

"the world def needs more bikeses"

Marshall28

07-29-2009, 09:22 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

hand 1, raise turn/call it off, he has a draw REALLY often when he makes that sizing.

hand 2, I would probably just call his c/r, but I certainly don't fault you at all for 3betting the flop and shoving the turn, he 3bets pretty much every king in his range I assume if he's only flatting 8% or whatever, your hand looks like a draw and he can make a value call w/ a hand like 77 that he turned into a bluff on the flop. Looks fine.

hand 3, your equity versus his range is much worse than you perceive it to be. I think you overplay the turn w/ the c/r, I would just dump the flop.

And to answer your general question about how to deal with these types of players who raise so often on draw heavy boards, just think about it, if you are expecting a raise or whatever you need to pick the boards and spots you are c-betting a bit better. Just c/f to them sometimes, if you have some equity it's not a big deal to give it up now and then, they have position so they get to determine how much money goes in the pot ultimately, not you. c/f more often and b/3b more often.

griffey24

07-29-2009, 11:56 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

hand 1, raise turn/call it off, he has a draw REALLY often when he makes that sizing.

I don't know, he's giving us a good turn price. I'd just take it and try getting to showdown for cheap. On the river we pretty much beat nothing, so yah for sure fold.

Hand 2
-wow I would never do this vs opponent described. If he's such a nutjob then I'd just call down here, calling c/r and calling whatever happens on the turn. You're kind of overplaying your hand IP, and letting him off the hook if he's FoS.

Hand 3
-fold flopp and c/c turn as played

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

bjsaust

07-30-2009, 12:40 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

You dont seem to have thought through what you're doing much here. In general against guys who like to bet a lot, I like to call a lot.

Just playing to improve.

Renton

07-30-2009, 01:41 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

1) i would just fold the flop when he raises that huge

2) this is pretty horribly played, I would call flop raise, folding is an option too.

3) man fold to the flop raise, as played call turna and probably fold river, I don't understand why you are so excited to get the chips in.

Parasurama

07-30-2009, 02:01 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: DMT

Posts: 820

No really original thoughts about the hands from me but I'll just say I would cbet bigger on all of these flops. I've found that my cbet sizing is a very important part of my game in that it has so many implications for turn and river play and how often our opponents play back at us.

nutsinho

07-30-2009, 02:14 AM Post subject: Re: 3 Hands vs. Aggros

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmind

I'm having trouble with the really aggressive guys playing "normal preflop" stats but going crazy postflop.

it looks like you are trying to counter them by making even more obvious theoretical mistakes. does that seem like the right strategy?

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

bigspenda73

07-30-2009, 02:40 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

yikes dude, you don't have to fight fire with fire

Da GOAT

07-30-2009, 09:17 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

Hand 1 - First thought was damn thats a big c/r. Nowadays I would probably always call his c/r but at 50nl I dunno. Ill say its fine, id prob take your line most times. Marshall has a good point about opp bet size.

Hand 2 - I would call his c/r more often than 3bet flop, then id stack off on this turn. I not too worried about Kx since so few Kx hands would c/r flop.

Hand 3 - Fold flop, your equity isnt very good. If you hit you could be in trouble.

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

07-30-2009, 10:23 AM

#11 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

hand 2 I'd just fold flop you opened UTG so your range is strong
like I kept reading the HH and went WHAT THE FUCK!!!! *HEAD EXPLODES*
hand 3 is another fold on the flop because of hardcore reverse implied odds

Alexos

07-30-2009, 03:09 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

yikes dude, you don't have to fight fire with fire

yeah. Sure you might have to get it in lighter vs these guys, but try to find spots with more equity. QQ hand is rly ugly, you basically have minimal equity there, and hand 3 I'd never float the flop oop vs an aggro donk, doesnt make much sense.

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