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3-betting JJ for value vs feesh - horrible turn card.

  
 
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Carroters
Old 11-12-2009, 12:21 PM     Post subject: 3-betting JJ for value vs feesh - horrible turn card. #1 (permalink)  
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 This is fish is 36/18 over 35 hands and call way to many raises preflop. I think he'll be calling this 3-bet with all kinds of worse pairs and random broadways/SC's etc.

Flop is pretty much gin so I just bet pretty big given there are plenty draws/pair + draws in his range.

Turn is ultra gayness because he has a fuck ton of kings here imo. Like all the broadway king combos are left and a lot of his lower pairs and junk will fold the flop. So I check back the turn, trying to fill up and stack him, since this fish would defo check the nuts to me here.

River bricks off and I think this is quite an easy fold. Sure he can be pushing me off a split quite a bit, but like I said I feel he's still quite nutted here especially given river sizing.

How's my line?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($49.25)
SB ($52.10)
BB ($50.75)
UTG ($54.45)
MP ($31.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
1 fold, MP bets $1.50, Hero raises $5, 2 folds, MP calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.75) 9, Q, J (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $7.50, MP calls $7.50

Turn: ($25.75) 10 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

River: ($25.75) 8 (2 players)
MP bets $19 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $25.75

 
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Pelion
Old 11-12-2009, 03:03 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I play it the same. I doubt hes shoving 2 pairs on the river and even if he is there are a tonnnne of ways to have a K here. Split or lose sucks here.
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meeloche
Old 11-12-2009, 08:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I would very likely b/f turn, there are a ton of 2 pairs that he's gonna have a hard time folding.



 
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XTR1000
Old 11-12-2009, 08:45 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think you are very quick with putting other players in categories. Like putting a "fish"-tag on someone who runs 36/18 for a couple of orbits is kinda optimistic. That being said, Id play it the same but like the idea of b/f small on turn
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speedcake
Old 11-13-2009, 05:55 AM #5 (permalink)  
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if you think he is calling 3bets a ton then raise bigger pre and bet flop harder. If he is going to continue on the flop then its going to be a range with a lot of draws, one pair + draws, two pairs etc and it seems like you are missing a ton of value by not betting more.

MP is short to start with, should be really easy to get him in by the turn without it being any kind of over bet if you just size your pre and flop bets a bit better.
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Pelion
Old 11-13-2009, 11:25 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedcake
if you think he is calling 3bets a ton then raise bigger pre and bet flop harder. If he is going to continue on the flop then its going to be a range with a lot of draws, one pair + draws, two pairs etc and it seems like you are missing a ton of value by not betting more.

MP is short to start with, should be really easy to get him in by the turn without it being any kind of over bet if you just size your pre and flop bets a bit better.
wtf? Its not an overbet on the turn. Its just a horrible horrible card. We can easily shove this turn if a decent card comes off, and we get called by loads of worse hands. When this turn comes why on earth do we want to be committed?
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

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Carroters
Old 11-13-2009, 11:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Yeah the flop sizing has obviously set up and easy turn shove on any decent/safer card. I don't see any need to bet bigger on this flop when I can stick in the last $19 into a $26 pot with my sizing.

Yeah sure I could 3-bet more preflop, but I don't think it makes too much difference pot size wise with these stacks and I want to ensure his calling range remains as wide as possible (obv without minraising or giving him awesome odds)

 
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