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3/6 - couple turn spots

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griffey24

11-30-2009, 03:07 AM Post subject: 3/6 - couple turn spots

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

hand 1
-villain in this hand is the type that calls all 3bets (fold to 3bet 40%) and is the type that will peel utg just cause he thinks it "looks stronger"
-no immediate history this session, he sat down not long ago
-is turn easy after my sizing or is this still close/tough?
-villain is 24/19/2.8

$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($631)
CO ($600)
BTN ($1,145.35)
SB ($1,198.10)
Hero (BB) ($866.50)

Pre-Flop: ($9, 5 players) Hero is BB

UTG raises to $18, 3 folds, Hero raises to $66, UTG calls $48

Flop:

($143, 2 players)
Hero bets $80, UTG calls $80

Turn:

($303, 2 players)
Hero bets $100, UTG goes all-in $480, Hero to call $380

Hand 2
-villain in this hand seems to open most of this EP/utg+1 range to 4x pre
-villain folds to most of my 3bets, and has folded to the couple times I 3bet him this session. Based on recent dynamic, I expect him to fold a lot to a 3bet pre, hence the flat
-villain is 19/16/3.46

$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($618)
CO ($600)
BTN ($2,175.70)
SB ($664)
Hero (BB) ($1,604.60)

Pre-Flop: ($9, 5 players) Hero is BB

1 fold, CO raises to $24, 2 folds, Hero calls $18

Flop:

($51, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $36, Hero raises to $90, CO calls $54

Turn:

($231, 2 players)
Hero ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

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meeloche

11-30-2009, 06:25 AM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

1) I'm making an assumption on who the villain (fast edie?) is and vs him I think this is close but its ok. I would bet bigger on the turn though closer to half pot.

2) I would likely b/f turn c/f river.

minSim

11-30-2009, 07:42 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

I can't really comment on hand 1, but on hand 2 if you don't have an overly strong c/r-ing range on the flop (consisting not only of FD's and 2P+) isn't this is a clear b/f?

pocketfours

11-30-2009, 08:45 AM

#4 (permalink)

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1: I hate the 3bet pre vs this guy and I'm not very happy about the small cbet either. I'm assuming you are planning on firing all 3, in which case it might be ok with reads.

Seems pretty bad for him to shove sets here so I don't see any good reason to b/f TPTK with all kinds of garbage in your range, after you have made a bet on the flop against which he is never folding any hand ever.

2: Wow I hate pre so much here and your justification is just bs imo. As played I want to c/f turn even though it seems ridiculous.

Marshall28

11-30-2009, 10:52 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,198

Hand 1: Cbet on flop is clearly too big and barrel on turn is def too small. A piece of information I'd be interested in would be his raise 1st in from UTG %. As played clearly snap it off and be happy.

Hand 2: I think preflop is fine, but your flop c/r is much too small IMO. Needs to be ~108. Turn is a clear c/shove all day. If he chks back turn obv value bet non club/Q rivers.

nutsinho

11-30-2009, 11:04 AM

#6 (permalink)

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1. pretty meh on preflop, postflop is ok, now easy call

2. i like the b/f + c/f idea now, but your flop sizing is atrocious and completely unjustifiable and i am one who is known to monkey with small betsizing options

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griffey24

11-30-2009, 01:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

I agree with the comments that my flop c/r is hand 2 is for sure too small. Shoulda made it 105-110ish probably. Maybe even bigger since its so drawy.

Marshall - why do you think turn c/shove > b/f in hand 2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

Vill in hand 1 is alexander T and hand 2 is qwerty man

Af for hand 2. I agree that I think b/f is probably best on the turn, but assuming he flats the turn, aren't we still ahead of a lot of his turn flatting range? (KcQ, AcQ, KKc, QJc, JJc even sometimes)

Are we c/f, just because the hands we're ahead of will fold to a river jam anyhow?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

1: I hate the 3bet pre vs this guy

2: Wow I hate pre so much here and your justification is just bs imo.

Hand 1 - so we know this guy calls like all 3bets, and you don't wanna 3bet for value here with this hand? What hands would you want to 3bet then (other than the obvious QQ+, which isn't really adjusting to his play)

Hand 2 - I don't know how you can hate this based on my comments. I don't see how "dynamic" can be bs? If you've hardly 3bet someone in the last 2 hours, you know he folds to 3bets with these positions as it is, then I'd argue that always 3betting here and never flatting is losing money (or rather, always winning his 4bb's but rarely winning more).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

meeloche

11-30-2009, 06:08 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,131

Then I no longer like the 3 bet in hand 1 fwiw.

griffey24

11-30-2009, 06:23 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

Then I no longer like the 3 bet in hand 1 fwiw.

Just out of curiosity, suppose we KNOW that villain will call our 3bet IP with all pairs. Should we be more or less likely to 3bet AQss here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

meeloche

11-30-2009, 06:32 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

That shouldn't really affect it since you're never really gonna get a lot of money from pairs postflop. You want him to have dominated Aces and Queens a lot before you decide to 3 bet.

Alexos

11-30-2009, 10:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

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If he'll call a 3bet with all pairs obv we'd want to 3bet any hands more, not just AQ

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Ravageur

11-30-2009, 10:41 PM

#12 (permalink)

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I think hand 1 is fine and not 3-betting hand 2 pf seems criminal (because we end up in spots like these where villain might fold a hand we would've stacked PF and now we're tempted to stack off to a hand he would've folded PF). I agree with b/fold the turn.

Family Cruise IMO

IowaSkinsFan

12-01-2009, 01:46 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Hand 2: I really hate preflop, and as nuts said I don't understand flop sizing, as played, on this board.

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Ravageur

12-01-2009, 02:06 AM

#14 (permalink)

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i'm not even sure we should b/fold the turn in hand 2 as played. I mean are we really worried all that much about a flush when you raised the flop so small? So confusing...most flush draws have a gutter here as well and will be 4-betting here a lot no? What about c/call turn and c/fold river?

Gah reading this hand puts me on huge tilt damn you Griffey! Come back to Boss I miss you.

Family Cruise IMO

Numbr2intheWorld

12-01-2009, 05:27 AM

#15 (permalink)

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if i remember alexander T correctly like like the 3bet pre in hand 1. gotta call turn but id expect to be beat a decent amount. Don't get the bet sizing at all though

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gabe

12-03-2009, 08:42 AM

#16 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

id c/c the turn and probably c/c the river. he probably peels alot of flopped guters and will be looking for cards to bluff you with

sauce123

12-03-2009, 05:54 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

id c/c the turn and probably c/c the river. he probably peels alot of flopped guters and will be looking for cards to bluff you with

you're not playing yourself there killer !

just b/f the turn, u have too much equity to c/f and not enough to b/c

jam like half or rivers and c/f the rest, im playing pretty straight forward here i guess

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3/6 - couple turn spots

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