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bdawg56kg
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06-29-2006, 01:06 AM
Post subject: 3 400NL line checks.
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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1) Villian is 30/12. No other specific reads.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($589.70)
UTG ($398)
MP ($93.70)
Hero ($370.30)
Button ($528.10)
SB ($231)
Preflop: Hero is CO with T , A.
1 fold, MP calls $4, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, SB calls $14, BB calls $12, MP calls $12.
Flop: ($64) 8, 7, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $32, MP folds, Hero raises to $104, SB folds, BB raises to $573.7, Hero calls $250.30 (All-In).
2) Villian is unknown. Should I take the free card?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($632.15)
Hero ($632.80)
SB ($391.40)
BB ($402.40)
UTG ($293)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 8.
UTG raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $48, SB calls $46, 1 fold, UTG folds.
Flop: ($112) Q , J, 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?
3) Villian is unknown. What's your standard line on this river?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($589.70)
MP ($398)
CO ($101.70)
Hero ($498.30)
SB ($387.10)
BB ($239)
Preflop: Hero is Button with T, K.
2 folds, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $8, SB calls $6, BB calls $4.
Flop: ($32) 3, 4, K (4 players)
SB bets $8, BB folds, CO folds, Hero calls $8.
Turn: ($48) T (2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero calls $40.
River: ($128) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
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2) I bet
3) check
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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ok
bet/call anything
push
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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hand 2 I would always bet when I'm looking at a 48% chance to win the hand
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
hand 2 I would always bet when I'm looking at a 48% chance to win the hand
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we know villian's hand that easy?
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Hand 1: Standard
Hand 2: I might check the flop here and peel one off.
Hand 3: Check.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
push
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See this is how aggressive I need to get. I can see that this would be +EV but I'm just not good enough at picking my spots yet.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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you just gotta think....he checked......he wouldnt check in ace.....he can only call with an ace.......ALL IN
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
you just gotta think....he checked......he wouldnt check in ace.....he can only call with an ace.......ALL IN
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Pushing is awful here when our hand holds so much showdown value ..
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
you just gotta think....he checked......he wouldnt check in ace.....he can only call with an ace.......ALL IN
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Whats the point in putting our whole stack at risk though? Bet $100?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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no way
pushing is more +ev than checking
if we check and they have a diamond we lose the hand
if we push we win like 99% of the time anyway
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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lol
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
lol
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STOP JUST TYPING 'LOL' GEEZ
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
lol
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STOP JUST TYPING 'LOL' GEEZ |
See I was thinking of doing it again in this post but then I thought nah that'd be silly.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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lol
gotcha!
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
you just gotta think....he checked......he wouldnt check in ace.....he can only call with an ace.......ALL IN
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Pushing is awful here when our hand holds so much showdown value .. |
If you go through the progression of the hand.....I think a push is the most awesomest play here.
1) Our hand wins a showdown *maybe* if we check
2) Our hand wins almost every time unless villian has Ad here, we played it exactly like we have Ad...and our opponent checked so he probably doesn't have Ad here and is scared shitless......even if he calls, we probably win here because of the "showdown value" of our hand....
I dunno, gonna have to go with gabetown here.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
no way
pushing is more +ev than checking
if we check and they have a diamond we lose the hand
if we push we win like 99% of the time anyway
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Except for the times you get called by theAd/ Qd/Jd or worse. Betting here is terrible in terms of risk/reward.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Betting here is terrible in terms of risk/reward.
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nope 
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
hand 2 I would always bet when I'm looking at a 48% chance to win the hand
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we know villian's hand that easy? |
I'm not saying all the time but is it that bad to assume that since he checked the flop I would say that usually you have 48% be glad to hear your thoughts on how this concept works though
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Betting here is terrible in terms of risk/reward.
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nope |
Pushing is definitely awful against a decent player. I would check the Ad here if I'm villain a lot to induce a bluff. So when you shove here you get GGed a fair bit by somebody who isn't completely predictable. I think our hand is good so often that betting is pointless, even if there are a few times when villain has a non nut flush and scoops.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Pushing is definitely awful against a decent player.
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the decent players are the ones its always a push against because they arent tricky. the fish might call and the awesome player might trap you, but the decent ones are usually straightforward enough that push is great.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Pushing is definitely awful against a decent player.
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the decent players are the ones its always a push against because they arent tricky. the fish might call and the awesome player might trap you, but the decent ones are usually straightforward enough that push is great. |
Would you push if you had the A too?
Pushing is better than checking if fold%*459-331 > showdown%*128.
Fold% is around 90, showdown% something like 60? 82 > 77, pretty close with these numbers.
95, 50 -> 105, 64..
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Hand 1: I guess this is standard unless Villain only leads out like this with 2p+. Then it's a call obv.
Hand 2: I lean towards a check, that coldcall OOP is tricky. If you put him on QQ+, which is likely, checking is the best play. You can c-bet the turn too if he checks again.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
push
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Hah, I knew this was coming from gabe. Metagame aside, is a push that much more effective than betting 100-120?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
bet/call anything
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The only hands we fold out by betting are TT and AK, assuming a typical range for him. I'm not saying betting is the wrong play, but don't you think a check is better here? If he checks the turn, we can always bet.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
The only hands we fold out by betting are TT and AK, assuming a typical range for him. I'm not saying betting is the wrong play, but don't you think a check is better here? If he checks the turn, we can always bet.
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i think they put you on AK too much when you check here and will call you down with 99/88 too much.
but, depending on how tight they are and how likely they are to reraise with AA/KK, it can be a check sometimes. the fact that the villian is short by an amount thats not divisable by the small blind makes me think they aren't a regular, so i like betting.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Would you push if you had the A too? |
That's the whole point of the "going all-in a lot" strategy, no? That you can push your monsters and people will really be doubting if you have it if they've seen you push so much.
If I understand correctly, you want to push sometimes (in spots like this apparently) vs solid players, because even if it's only slightly +EV to do so.. when you later push a monster vs a more fishy player, he is all the more likely to call you. Or vs a solid player who is starting to think you're a loon, so he might call a push lateron too.. hopefully we have it then, needless to say.
The only problem I see is the very aware players that figure out your game and will try to trap you.
This sound at all in the good direction?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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