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25nl 6-max JJ as overpair with OESD facing re-raise all in

  
 
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fisherman
Old 06-17-2008, 10:21 PM     Post subject: 25nl 6-max JJ as overpair with OESD facing re-raise all in #1 (permalink)  

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fisherman
katona1969 is 40/7/2.3

Seat 1: Koning_IV ($20.00)
Seat 2: katona1969 ($33.05)
Seat 3: Jome8 ($19.88)
Seat 4: Ibanezrg ($25.50)
Seat 5: libuda47 ($24.00)
Seat 6: TheLoon ($30.65)
TheLoon posts the small blind of $0.15
Koning_IV posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ibanezrg [Jh] [Js]
katona1969 calls $0.25
Jome8 folds
Ibanezrg raises to $1.15
libuda47 folds
TheLoon calls $1.00
Koning_IV folds
katona1969 calls $0.90
*** FLOP *** [8c] [9s] [2c]
TheLoon checks
katona1969 bets $0.25
Ibanezrg raises to $3.50
TheLoon folds
katona1969 calls $3.25
*** TURN *** [8c] [9s] [2c] [Td]
katona1969 checks
Ibanezrg bets $8.00
katona1969 raises to $28.40 and is all-in
Hero????

Am I pot committed here given that I have an overpair to the board + and OESD giving me 8 extra outs if I am behind. Effective pot is $31.50, it is $12.85 for me to call so I'm getting about 2.5:1. That T completes quite a few 2pair and straight draws combos the villain could be drawing with, but did give me 8 extra outs. And I know that many of you will probably say that I should raise more on the flop but much more than $4 or $4.5 and it will drive away the drawers, where as by raising it to $3.5 they are getting about 2.3:1 on what is a 4 or 5:1 shot for their flush or straight draw.

Also what do you think about checking behind since it is quite a scary card and c/c the river if it comes a brick?

Thanks in advance
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frosst
Old 06-18-2008, 12:18 AM #2 (permalink)  
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what hands have you seen him limp/call from UTG. looks like a set. if the turned ten only improves on the range you are putting him on, then why are you betting? Just because he checked to you doesn't necessarily mean he's weak. Especially if you have a very aggressive image.

as played, I'd fold..btw, did you calculate your odds to improve if you are against a set/overpair? about 4:1, whereas your getting almost half that if you call (which = -EV )

 
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bjsaust
Old 06-18-2008, 12:39 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Check behind turn unless you're prepared to call this. Take your free card and evaluate river.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 12:41 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Easy call, you have hidden outs against 2 pair.
Well played.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bjsaust
Old 06-18-2008, 12:46 AM #5 (permalink)  
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That min-bet call is a draw so often though Fnord. Now a FD makes a lot more sense, but something like QJs isnt out of the question here. My concern is that some of our outs may only be to split.

I dunno, I've been burnt a few times recently overvaluing my equity in spots like this, maybe its just the small sample size though.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 12:49 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
That min-bet call is a draw so often though Fnord.
Usually it's a pair or something really weak. Good draws usually try to take down the pot instead of blocking it.

Probably a lot of mert checking the turn behind, he's just soooooo retarded that I think we're giving up too much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bjsaust
Old 06-18-2008, 12:51 AM #7 (permalink)  
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At 25nl they "blocking bet" with a min-bet a lot, then for some reason call the pot sized raise even though they didnt want to pay to see their draw.

Some sites are tougher at 25nl than others though.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Viscount Vic
Old 06-18-2008, 01:40 AM #8 (permalink)  

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Viscount Vic
fold, fold, fold, he definately has a made straight 97.45% of the time.
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Viscount Vic
Old 06-18-2008, 01:42 AM #9 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Easy call, you have hidden outs against 2 pair.
Well played.
The donk bet and call big raise screams str8 draw... I see this all the time at micros
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 01:49 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Guess I'm out of touch with micro online lines then.

Against mid stakes fish and live players I'm putting him on a pair on the flop or maybe a gutshot until he gives me a reason to think otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bjsaust
Old 06-18-2008, 01:52 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Pair is still there a lot, I'd say like 2:1 draws v's pairs.
Just playing to improve.
 
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fisherman
Old 06-18-2008, 10:10 AM #12 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
That min-bet call is a draw so often though Fnord. Now a FD makes a lot more sense, but something like QJs isnt out of the question here. My concern is that some of our outs may only be to split.

I dunno, I've been burnt a few times recently overvaluing my equity in spots like this, maybe its just the small sample size though.
Preeeeeeeety close. He had J7s (WTF???). O well he ran into a monster draw and my outs were only to split as you guessed. I will definitely think about checking in this spot in the future. The only problem is I really don't want to give drawers free cards unecessarily. Before I've bet in this situation, a brick has come and they have folded to my shove!
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 10:22 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherman
I really don't want to give drawers free cards unecessarily.
Re-think this.

Sometimes it's better to lose a small pot than a big one. Also, the free cards you give are made up for by all of the bluffs you induce.

You need to consider your opponent's range, the pot size and how likely he is to bluff any card if you check behind. Be more inclined to check against aggressive opponents with lots of money behind. Be more inclined to bet into passive opponents or if there is less behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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