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25 NL: Laying down overpairs on flop ?

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The_Dude

08-21-2005, 10:35 AM Post subject: 25 NL: Laying down overpairs on flop ?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 16

Hi folks,

I've been reading the forum for a while now, great to see a special section dedicated to shorthanded games.

Here's a hand of mine played a short while ago:

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 19, 16:37:03 EDT 2005
Table Table 36900 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: The_Dude ( $46.08 )
Seat 6: TheMonix ( $55.32 )
Seat 5: John_Hunt07 ( $34.38 )
Seat 3: BigPiles ( $29.35 )
Seat 2: gymme ( $7.51 )
John_Hunt07 posts small blind [$0.10].
TheMonix posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to The_Dude [ As Ac ]
gymme calls [$0.25].
BigPiles calls [$0.25].
The_Dude raises [$1].
John_Hunt07 calls [$0.90].
TheMonix calls [$0.75].
gymme calls [$0.75].
BigPiles calls [$0.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 2c, 6d ]
John_Hunt07 checks.
TheMonix bets [$2].
gymme folds.
BigPiles folds.
The_Dude raises [$6].
John_Hunt07 folds.
TheMonix is all-In.
The_Dude folds.
TheMonix does not show cards.
TheMonix wins $64.47

Actually my question is about the type of situation here. You raise preflop with big pairs (AA-QQ) or AK, get the overpair or TPTK on the flop and one player pushes all-in. Playing 25 and 50NL my experience is that most of the time (80% ?) your facing a set/2 pair or maybe a flopped straight on
a coordinated board. Players at that level rarely bluff/semi-bluff on the flop that way , like for instance with a flush draw (like 2 clubs on the example hand).
So without a solid read, which I didn't have in that case, I tend to lay down these hands now. I've payed off so many sets in similar situations in the past, I feel that my play was justifiable... what do you think ?

Cheers
Dude

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stuck

08-21-2005, 03:12 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 586

At the small stakes, if someone bets, (and they're a not a semi-decent player) they have something. If they raise, be a bit worried (though I have seen fishes raise on the draw). At these stakes, if they push over the top, they usually have you beat, though these particular situations are tougher than most to gauge. I'd guess he hit a set. maybe AK or KQ would make this play, but I doubt it.

If I had a hammer
I'd drop in the morning
I'd drop in the evening..

Miffed22001

08-21-2005, 11:36 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

On that board i call his push or reraise him all in.
If his hand beats mine thats fine im quite willing to pay off the set here or if hes drawing he needs cards not me.
imo you'll find its some fish who has level one thinking
'yes i hit my top pair/second pair ' im betting'
He proably hasnt even considered that you raised him back and why even though you raised preflop you've rerasied his bet.
I'd call. Imo you will get pushed off to many pots here when someone has AK or KQ and thinks you have AQ etc when you have AA. They could even have the draw which i'll take odds on every time. Giving them respect for a set or anything better is outthinking you opponent here. Surely he also slow plays the set?
Call imo.

The_Dude

08-22-2005, 04:54 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 16

You could be right of course... If I'd been sure of my play I wouldn't have posted in the first place.
While going through my hand histories I actually noticed that the immediate all-in move didn't occur so often in similar situations, more like in that hand: I pushed after a raise, trying not to outguess myself. What do you think ? Maybe I am just destined to get destacked here ?

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, August 20, 11:37:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 36760 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: trussel ( $25.51 )
Seat 2: Nemis ( $10.80 )
Seat 3: quiturbichin ( $13.53 )
Seat 4: The_Dude ( $24.15 )
Seat 5: ronpeart ( $27.40 )
Seat 6: RikusJRat ( $21.70 )
Nemis posts small blind [$0.10].
quiturbichin posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to The_Dude [ Jc Js ]
The_Dude raises [$1].
ronpeart calls [$1].
RikusJRat calls [$1].
trussel folds.
Nemis folds.
quiturbichin folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 2h, 3c ]
The_Dude bets [$3].
ronpeart raises [$6].
RikusJRat folds.
The_Dude is all-In.
ronpeart calls [$17.15].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
ronpeart shows [ As, 5c ] a straight, two to six.
The_Dude doesn't show [ Jc, Js ] two pairs, jacks and threes.
ronpeart wins $47.65 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

mgobluefb

08-22-2005, 09:32 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 172

In 25NL, because it is such small stakes, I rarely fold an overpair on a non-scary board. However, it depends...

If you're up against a weak-tight calling station, and he's re-raising you, you might want to fold. If there are two other people in the pot re-raising you, you might want to fold.

Most of the time, however, I'm pushing it hard.

Final Gauntlet Standings: 5th, Money Won: $128.97, Points: 195.30

andr3w321

08-23-2005, 03:01 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Posts: 413

Raise more preflop. 5 people seeing a flop when you hold AA is a nono.

The_Dude

08-23-2005, 05:41 AM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 16

I think you are right about the preflop raise. When I raise, I am always raising 4xBB... but at these small stakes that doesn't scare people away, especially when my raise comes from the button and they have already called. It's of course uncomfortable to have 5 people on the pot... even more of you don't hold AA, but somewhat weaker hands. I'll change that in my play.

WhiteFingers

08-23-2005, 11:49 AM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: West Yorkshire

Posts: 44

Arguebly the second situation is a much more dangerous situation than the first instance.
You talk about being wary of sets in the first hand so fold but in the second hand the board gives chance of a made straight or flush draw
Would have called the first instance but fold the second hand.

The strong point in poker is never to lose your temper, either with those you are playing with or, more particularly, with the cards. There is no sympathy in poker. Always keep cool. If you lose your head you will lose all your chips.

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25 NL: Laying down overpairs on flop ?

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