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200NL - TPTK facing turn shove

  
 
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ChrisTC
Old 07-01-2008, 12:52 AM     Post subject: 200NL - TPTK facing turn shove #1 (permalink)  

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Hello,

villain is fairly unknown but seems TAGish.

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BB: $235.75
Hero (UTG): $254.40
MP: $101.15
CO: $156.35
BTN: $85.15
SB: $211.50

Pre-Flop: As Qd dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $6, 4 folds, BB calls $4

Flop: ($13) Qh 4s 7h (2 Players)
BB bets $8, Hero raises to $24, BB raises to $58, Hero calls $34

Turn: ($129) 4h (2 Players)
BB bets $171.75 and is All-In, Hero ???
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pankfish
Old 07-01-2008, 01:08 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Goddamn he has a set of 7's.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-01-2008, 01:34 AM #3 (permalink)  
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pretty easy fold after that action. i might even fold to his flop 3bet.
 
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dalecooper
Old 07-01-2008, 01:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Fold all day. He probably had you beat already, and the flush got there AND the board paired without helping you out.
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will641
Old 07-01-2008, 04:33 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
pretty easy fold after that action. i might even fold to his flop 3bet.
i agree.
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minSim
Old 07-01-2008, 11:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Having some stats or reads on a villain is crucial to continue the hand after the flop 3bet.

"Villain seems TAGish" is a bit too vague, but often you have to make assumptions.
Here is some analysis on possible flop 3bet ranges:

33/77/maybe some AQ/maybe some air - I think this is the standard range for a standard TAG here as he has no FD's in his range. Without assuming villain has a lot air in his range, it's a muck...you more or less have a bluff catcher.
Also note that having i.e. AA against this range it isn't much better if you assume villain won't b/3b AQ.

same as above + 87s-JTs - Villain has a FD half the time he has a set, so you still can't call, unless his air range is big.

same as first + AJs, 54s-JTs Villain has an 8 out draw as often as a set. This is still a possible range, although slightly looser then standard TAG.

You can go wider with possible FD's if you want, but villain being OOP I can't see it being that wide.

Based on your view of villain this should be a pretty easy flop fold unless you think he's raising a lot of air, which imo is very unlikely considering his line and betsizes. With the turn completing the flush that is an even easier fold.
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ChrisTC
Old 07-01-2008, 12:28 PM #7 (permalink)  

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Thank you very much guys, especially to minSim for the in-depth analysis!
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BigPapi
Old 07-01-2008, 12:52 PM #8 (permalink)  
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weird play by villain...

hard without reads, but normally I dont think this is a set of 7's which turned into a full house a lot. I mean why overbet turn when you just got 3bet and you're almost sure your opponent will put in more money on its own?

Then again, why only 3bet that low on flop? that hardly gives fold equity and seems more like a made hand.

So his flop play and turn play contradict eachother as far as I'm concerned which makes it hard to put him on a hand, but you're not doing to well against his range of all possible hands, so have to agree on a fold and perhaps even to the flop 3bet

We cant forget to put 56 of hearts in his range...
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Da GOAT
Old 07-01-2008, 04:31 PM     Post subject: Re: 200NL - TPTK facing turn shove #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTC
Flop: ($13) Qh 4s 7h (2 Players)
BB bets $8, Hero raises to $24, BB raises to $58, Hero calls $34
[/b]
I think we can safely assume opp isnt bluffing here without decent equity.

Vs 77,44,AhKh,AhQh,AhJh,KQs,65s,KQo

We are 52%

Imo id say his range is tighter than that, i doubt a tagfish can 3bet bluff here. so i fold to his 3bet
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