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200NL, I'm the preflop raiser, facing flop aggression

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griffey24

06-12-2007, 05:31 AM Post subject: 200NL, I'm the preflop raiser, facing flop aggression

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

hand 1:
-I haven't been getting too out of line, running at like 22/15, but definitely raising most buttons
-SB was 22/19/12 over only 100 hands, and was betting a lot, so his flop lead didn't mean much to me
-UTG+1 was new to the table at the time of this hand, so no real reads
-what is the best play on the flop here, flat call to keep it mulitiway or raise since I was the preflop raiser?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $212.80
UTG+1: $152.12
CO: $186.05
Hero: $364.10
SB: $198
BB: $50.68

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $10, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop:

($32, 3 players)
SB bets $24, UTG+1 calls, Hero??

hand 2:
-no real reads at the time of this hand, but now i see SB is 21/13/3
-how bad is the flop call?
-what to do on the river?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $424.20
CO: $78.65
Button: $124.70
SB: $238.85
BB: $212.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with

Hero raises to $8, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop:

($26, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $18, Button raises to $40, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn:

($146, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River:

($146, 3 players)
SB bets $75, Hero??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

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minSim

06-12-2007, 07:40 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Hand 1, yes I'd call, you're getting direct odds. UTG+1 isn't going anywhere, so raising just builds a pot without a hand.

Hand 2, I don't really know about the flop call. Someone better then me should comment on it. I think you're ahead here very often with the cold calls preflop. Someone having a 9 (SB?) is very possible though, so I don't mind the call.
I would fold the river, especially with button to act.

edit: Possible instead of impossible...tiny difference

Alexos

06-12-2007, 09:33 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

1) Call is fine, raise is fine..what sucks is that this flop hits their range bigtime...so maybe call, but then again when u have AA you usually raise this flop. Soooo, depends who you play against? Against crypto donks both options are fine imo

2)I wanna know CC% of SB. Its gotta be pretty high anyways, and chances are he might have a 9...but I'm pretty much calling that river anyways though, since it's a smallish bet and there are quite a few hands we beat (55-88).

Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.

noble007

06-12-2007, 11:45 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

hand 1 call
hand 2 fold
looks like a value bet, I put button on mid pocket pair 77,88 or 10,10
but sb surely has a 9. And he's betting out of position into 2 people.

griffey24

06-12-2007, 05:32 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

A lot of people are saying to call hand 1. Should I be more or less likely to raise hand 1 if the board is K56, instead of 356, and the action before me is the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Alexos

06-12-2007, 06:20 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

yes

Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.

zenbitz

06-12-2007, 06:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Hand 1, yes I'd call, you're getting direct odds. UTG+1 isn't going anywhere, so raising just builds a pot without a hand.

How so? You thinks 7s and 8s are good?
Hero is getting 24:56 - ~3:2 express. He is 5:1 against hitting the turn.

Now, you want to argue he has the implied odds to call... maybe - plus he might have air, or A6, or 44. But in no way does he have odds to chase here.

flyingPenguin

06-13-2007, 01:05 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Sydney

Posts: 193

Hand 1 you're calling $24 to make a $104 pot. That's not direct odds (without overcards as outs) but they're pretty good. And you have 2 streets, 2 opponents, and position on your side to make up the slack. You are also drawing to the nuts.

Without a read on UTG+1 you can't know if raising here is +EV. If you are always going to get called or reraised here a raise is no good.

minSim

06-13-2007, 07:38 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Hand 1, yes I'd call, you're getting direct odds. UTG+1 isn't going anywhere, so raising just builds a pot without a hand.

It's 24:80 (1:3,33) actually as UTG+1 called already. You're right, hero doen't get direct odds as he should get 1:4.9.
There can't be an argue about a call when implied odds are taking into account though.

gabe

06-13-2007, 07:46 AM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: trying to live

Posts: 7,964

gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

1st one is +EV as long as you dont fold

2nd one is so close it probably doesnt matter

Genitruc

06-13-2007, 08:09 AM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 1 raising or calling are both fun. I'd be more prone to call since it looks like ppl are here with mid PP's /OESD so you're very likely to get huge action when you hit

hand 2 I kind of like a fold after the overcall.

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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