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d0zer
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07-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Post subject: 200NL: FD, 3-way
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG visoring! ($356.45)
UTG+1 Anor8wsiatis ($144.40)
CO Pay_SAE ($145.60)
BTN pennpal ($447.10)
SB camptheblunt ($48.60)
BB Hero ($200.00)
Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BB  
visoring! raises to $6, Anor8wsiatis calls $6, Pay_SAE calls $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $4
Flop:    ($25, 4 players)
Hero checks, visoring! bets $16, 1 fold, Pay_SAE calls $16, $16 to Hero ($194)?
visoring is a 24/20 reg who has to have something firing into the uber loose donk. I was thinking a big c/r would look really strong, I should have some FE there. Calling is tempting with odds, though I hate playing draws OOP. thoughts?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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This is the type of spot/board I lead pretty often with hands like this, as well as a lot of Jx, 88+ type hands. If we lead with 88-TT type hands here and get called, we can fall back on a lot of spade turn/rivers potentially as well.
If I don't think PFR will cbet that often, then I'll lead here to take it down.
As played, villain's sizing is meh not too scary so I'd probably squeeze here reasonably often.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.
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how do we fold preflop getting a billion to one with a great implied odds hand with multiple almost fullstack donks in the pot?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.
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how do we fold preflop getting a billion to one with a great implied odds hand with multiple almost fullstack donks in the pot? |
You only mentioned one was a donk. And even a donk knows what a flush looks like. I just feel it's to hard to play and get paid off with these hands OOP. Unless you have a better understanding of the players and the dynamics at the table, in which case you should be able to make the decision yourself on what the best play is here.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.
I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.
I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.
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I don't know.. a donk could be calling all sorts of nonsense on the flop that he might not call a c/r to. AT/AQ and some stuff, 4x, 56, 66+ or anything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.
I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.
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I don't know.. a donk could be calling all sorts of nonsense on the flop that he might not call a c/r to. AT/AQ and some stuff, 4x, 56, 66+ or anything.
Also, from PFR's perspective. If he's thinking, he will probably realize that we're squeezing despite the fact that a donk fish is in the pot, which may even give us more credibility.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.
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How often are we actually winning a big pot here if we call preflop? We're definitely not going to be outplaying anyone for a small one here. So I'd rather 3bet, but since we're likely getting called by the fish I'd rather fold.
Not saying you're wrong, I'm sure I am. I just want to know why I'm wrong more than anything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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You have a hand that makes 2 pair or better 25% of the time by the river, and two fish are in the pot both with nearly full stacks. I'd say we're going to win a big pot extremely often when we call preflop.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
You have a hand that makes 2 pair or better 25% of the time by the river, and two fish are in the pot both with nearly full stacks. I'd say we're going to win a big pot extremely often when we call preflop.
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You have to get to the river first, something that just won't happen often enough. Folding preflop isn't bad, squeezing may be a bit better the more I think about it. --If we were in SB it's clearly a spot I'd want to fold or 3bet.
I woulda led the flop, c/r creates tons of problems ... we could get flatted or re-shoved on by a bigger flush draw. Either instance isn't favorable for us. We may get a call from a strong but not nutted hand and miss on the turn leaving us in a spot where we've built a huge pot and we're out of position without knowing how to treat the situation. Or a set could just shove on us. Better to lead the flop and see what develops after that.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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i'm genuinely surprised at people saying that they would fold this pre, such a trivially easy call getting 5+:1 on our money.
i like leading the flop>call flop>c/r. c/r just puts us in a bad spot too much like marshall said.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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we're going to win like half of someone's stack when we hit
ok, so donks know what a flush looks like
but they're never folding when we have a straight and they have top pair or two pair
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
i'm genuinely surprised at people saying that they would fold this pre, such a trivially easy call getting 5+:1 on our money.
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This, I understand not wanting to play pots out of position, but it's 89s multi-way against full stacks.
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