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200nl Call for 300bb?

  
 
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Marshall28
Old 04-22-2008, 02:35 AM     Post subject: 200nl Call for 300bb? #1 (permalink)  
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Okay so this villain was retarded, obviously in a vacuum this situation can't be given a 'right' answer ... so I'm going to give 4 or 5 hands leading up to this situation, and hopefully that will help you guys to understand the dynamic ... even then, im not too sure if it will be enough to get any type of decent answer on this ridiculous situation.

Anyways, villain was running 60/33/1.7 and here are some hands I played with him leading up to the big decision ....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($84.70)
SB ($336.75)
BB ($228.05)
UTG ($32.80)
Hero ($215.20)
CO ($129)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 3 folds, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) K, 3, 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB calls $12.

Turn: ($41) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $32, BB calls $32.

River: ($105) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $105

Results in white below:
BB has 3c 3h (three of a kind, threes).
Hero has Qh Ad (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins $105.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($276.20)
SB ($436.35)
Hero ($217.45)
UTG ($197)
MP ($400.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $6.

Flop: ($16) , , (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB calls $14.

Turn: ($44) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $36, SB calls $36.

River: ($116) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $70, SB calls $70.

Final Pot: $256

Results in white below:
SB has 7h Kh (two pair, kings and sevens).
Hero has Qd Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: SB wins $256.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($163)
CO ($216.30)
Button ($260.05)
Hero ($198)
BB ($219.05)
UTG ($486)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
1 fold, MP calls $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $14, Hero calls $13, 1 fold, MP folds.

Flop: ($32) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $22, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($76) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $42, Hero calls $42.

River: ($160) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $92, Hero calls $92.

Final Pot: $344

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Jd (one pair, queens).
Button has 6d Kh (straight, seven high).
Outcome: Button wins $344.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($273.20)
SB ($564.90)
Hero ($199)
UTG ($202.75)
MP ($395.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $6.

Flop: ($16) , , (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10.

Turn: ($36) (2 players)
SB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

River: ($80) (2 players)
SB bets $82, Hero calls $82.

Final Pot: $244

Results in white below:
SB has 9h 3h (three of a kind, threes).
Hero has As 6s (two pair, aces and threes).
Outcome: SB wins $244.


Anyways, at this point you should have some kind of understanding about the way this guy was playing .. so now ... the situation comes up ....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($368.75)
UTG ($373.50)
MP ($1046.05)
Hero ($557)
Button ($197)
SB ($198)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
1 fold, MP raises to $14, Hero calls $14, 3 folds.

Flop: ($31) , , (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($31) (2 players)
MP bets $22, Hero calls $22.

River: ($75) (2 players)
MP bets $552, Hero ....?
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Marshall28
Old 04-22-2008, 02:37 AM #2 (permalink)  
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tbh, his check on the flop really made me suspicious of a set. 44 was out when the 4 fell on the turn, but AA and 66 I still felt could be in his range, but this guy was so out of line, I really can't be sure what any of it meant. I suppose I shoulda bet the flop, but I thought if I made the flush I could win a big pot off of him since I thoguht his flop check indicated strength. maybe i just answered my own question, still, any input appreciated
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JonnyCosMo
Old 04-22-2008, 02:44 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hero insta folds
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reprisal
Old 04-22-2008, 03:03 AM #4 (permalink)  
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He seems to really love suited cards, so I could definitely see him having a flush here too...dunno what to make of him being the PFR tho. Your read seems pretty solid tho. What a ridiculous player.
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Jack Sawyer
Old 04-22-2008, 03:13 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 He could have K4, or unfilled 4x

its is, however, the first time in the series of hands you posted on him, that he grossly overbets river like that

still, i guess i lean towards folding
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will641
Old 04-22-2008, 04:25 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 wow thats pretty sick. its just weird cause every other really good hand he has had he c/c all the way down.

am i the only one that bets the flop? opp has shown no signs of c/r big with nut hands sooo....
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Marshall28
Old 04-22-2008, 06:22 AM #7 (permalink)  
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man i dunno, i thought that his check on flop meant strength and i didnt wanna get blown off my draw ... maybe i shoulda .. then called since we are real deep stacked.

i agree that he coulda had 4x that didnt fill up or a smaller flush ... it actually reminded me of that spot on HSP where jamie gold and doyle both had flushes and jamie didnt understand his relative hand strength and that this guy coulda had a smaller flush.. .. i am really not thinking i had enough info to call ...
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Renton
Old 04-22-2008, 08:36 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 its only 600 dollars
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kapilalink
Old 04-22-2008, 08:47 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I agree that his check on the flop is suspicious but I still think you should bet flop. It gives you so much more information about his hand and will build a pot for a potentially large victory.
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Roel
Old 04-22-2008, 08:49 AM #10 (permalink)  

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in my experience this is a bet designed to make flushes call. I snapfold.

I'd say move on to the next hand and seeing the hands before the hand in question you'll take everything and more eventually anyway.
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minSim
Old 04-22-2008, 09:06 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I make these BIG river bets with the nuts and nothing but the nuts and they make me a lot of money, because I get called way too often.

For me this is a hard decision on a non-paired board, but this one would be an instant muck.
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larsmars
Old 04-22-2008, 11:29 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Snap fold, villain isn't playing that bad.

Edit: Also, if you win effective stacks are about the same as if you fold and you have position on him. Don't gamble here if you feel it's close.
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Cocco_Bill
Old 04-22-2008, 12:50 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
its only 600 dollars
hey, its 1/2 not 10/20

No, but seriously there is no way you can call here.
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Marshall28
Old 04-22-2008, 01:57 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
its only 600 dollars
this was my 1st thought
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gabe
Old 04-22-2008, 02:22 PM #15 (permalink)  
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so do all you folders also fold 64 ?
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Marshall28
Old 04-22-2008, 02:50 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so do all you folders also fold 64 ?
tough question ... as far as relative hand strength, it's basically the same as the 2nd nut flush here ... only difference is displacement of cards ... it'd be far less likely for villain to hold 66 or 44, or 64 for that matter. AA and JJ still would seem very likely possibilities given the action. however.... id never check bottom 2 on the flop...

i dunno, i suck at poker.
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Toadstool
Old 04-22-2008, 02:51 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 Fold, villain seems like the typical fish type who, when they have the lead bet every time apart from when they flop the nuts and check to 'trap' you....I think this is AA at least 80% of the time, hoping you have a flush (if he thinks that deep) this is not a bluff, he slighlty overbet the pot with his str8, now massively overbets.....the thing that may make it a call is he plays any two suited and likely overvalues his hands - but for nearly 300BB this is an easy fold, and yes I think it's also a fold with 64 - it has pretty much the same value as our hand on this board (we beat 1 more hand - the K high flush)
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griffey24
Old 04-22-2008, 04:38 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
its only 600 dollars
lol nice


honestly, I think this is a fold based on the other hands you posted. In other hands he seemed moderately scared to put the chips in/raise when his hand wasn't the nuts (set of 3's, two pair on river K7).

I agree with the other posts that this kind of ridiculous overbet is made to get called by flushes. If I had a boat here I'd prob overbet jam it too.. though prob not 300bb's worth lol
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Renton
Old 04-22-2008, 05:16 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 64 beats the nut flush ldo
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b-rabbit
Old 04-22-2008, 05:38 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so do all you folders also fold 64 ?
raise the turn with 64 and villain folds his jj...maybe. i don't know gabe. with your questions all the damn times.
but i think our flush here is crushed.
do the right thing.
 
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 04-23-2008, 09:33 AM #21 (permalink)  
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fold
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