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Da GOAT
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05-24-2009, 10:39 AM
Post subject: 200nl Bluff
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Opp is 21/16 player, super small sample though. We played a similair hand the last orbit where he called flop IP and bet turn when I c/f'ed. Basically was using this move as a counter to his possible floats. He hasnt 3bet at all yet pre (again super small sample) so we can take out KKK and JJJ maybe.
My thoughts are also how often are we actually doing this with a made hand instead of double barrelling? Is it super risky to run this play as unbalanced as I do it or is it meh 200nl players wont adjust anyway.
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($735.05)
Hero (CO) ($240.60)
BTN ($243.00)
SB ($114.00)
BB ($117.60)
Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO  
1 fold, Hero raises to $6, BTN calls $6, 2 folds
Flop:    ($15, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, BTN calls $10
Turn:  ($35, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $24, Hero raises to $72, BTN calls $48
River:  ($179, 2 players)
Hero bets $152.60
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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you're repping missed clubs or missed straight draw
he calls if he can beat those...
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
you're repping missed clubs or missed straight draw
he calls if he can beat those...
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o rly
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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On the river I guess you can fold out a few hands that beat you like 54cc, 75cc, 76cc, Axcc. We also prevent him from bluffing missed clubs. You're right though that we rarely c/r turn with strong made hands on this board (with the exception of Kxcc sometimes), so if he can read hands he's gonna look you up alot. Still, it takes balls to call off 75bb on the river with 3rd pair or less.
I guess it comes down to how often people bet/call KQ/T, AJ type hands on this turn. I'd think alot of people would check turn/bluffcatch river with alot of midstrength hands especially since you're slightly deep. If he has alot of those then you're screwed.
I do think I like bet/bet/bet alot more than bet/checkraise/bet since our valuerange could be muuuch wider then.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Why do you think this is better than just triple barrelling?...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Why do you think this is better than just triple barrelling?...
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if he expects a fold from two barrels, but he wants to get floats to play back
but it would make more sense to do this with a king because if he checks the turn we can fire the river and get value and shi because it's a wtf line that might get us looked up light
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Why do you think this is better than just triple barrelling?...
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is cr'ing in this spot dead then?
as iopq said we get value from floats or mid range hands he bets turn with.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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golfguy37
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Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
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Did he fold? Or did he call you down?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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discussion aint over just yet
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i dont really hate your play but I'd much prefer to check/call the river to win more monies.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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With our A high nuts? U think the only hand he will bet is his missed draws and some Kx. He has draws most times.interesting. I guess we sure could!
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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lol I seriously hope that nuts didn't leave because of any dumbass complaints. His response here is the perfect example of the kind of thought that we're not going to see from ANY players other than the best
It should be so obvious that villain's river betting range doesn't include much better than A high, yet we all miss it, and would second guess ourselves if we did see it.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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nuts has made a few comments in my threads where i shudnt turn a hand such as above into a bluff and that it actuallly holds value. this hand thought me a hell of alot.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Yah I agree, nuts' response here was really good.
I would probably more often c/c this turn than c/r, but I agree with what nuts is hinting at, that his range for continuing vs the c/r is way more weighted towards draws than value hands.
The only value hands that make sense here to b/c are like KJ/33 (which would sometimes raise flop) and KQ. Compared to all the potential insiders, OESD, fd's.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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i agree nutsinho is very right in this particular assessment, however i'm not sure that doing super spewy stuff like this is that great, i think we must have incredible reads on our opps to do this don't we?
we're oop, we cbet cuz its fine to do so and we completely missed the flop. so we pick up a gutshot on the turn but isn't it completely okay to just c/f this turn, maybe sometimes c/c it?
and in terms of the metagame that you just had a similar hand to this before, don't you think opp will expect you to do something crazy soon in a similar spot and thus call you down much lighter? i think if you did it with Kx here this would be a better argument for making a fancy play?
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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The point that you and I need to take from it is that it is beyond exceptional hand reading and maximizing value in a rather obscure way.
And that I wanted to bring it up since I just learned that nuts left the forum, and I was pissed. The guy is one of the best NLHE players on the planet
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