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Da GOAT
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05-12-2009, 09:17 PM
Post subject: 200nl AJs OOP with nFD
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Opp is a total fish who plays like 42/12. Some money has moved between us but mostly in tiny pots, he is normally very passive and has been limping a fair amount in all positions.
love to hear thoughts on postflop. Ive just posted the whole hand as played. I dont expect to berated totally but im just wasnt too sure wot the best line is. I was basically thinking his range is so strong that check raising just doesnt have the FE so i call expecting a fish to payoff if a flush hits anyway. (Also I do expect fish in general to make stupid bet sizes which can make our hands easier to play on later streets). Maybe im wrong 
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG hoppetossan ($265.15)
CO CreepyDonk ($202.00)
BTN nickyballz ($200.00)
SB thabucket ($203.70)
BB Hero ($567.60)
Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is BB  
hoppetossan calls $2, 2 folds, thabucket calls $1, Hero raises to $8, hoppetossan raises to $14, thabucket folds, Hero calls $6
Flop:    ($30, 2 players)
Hero checks, hoppetossan bets $20, Hero calls $20
Turn:  ($70, 2 players)
Hero checks, hoppetossan bets $20, Hero calls $20
River:  ($110, 2 players)
Hero checks, hoppetossan bets $26, Hero folds
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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you played it fine 130BB deep, it just looks like he has AA KK and is terrible and valuebetting.
We get our value from value betting fish, not bluffing them out of limp 3betted pots ;p There are times of course to bluff huge fish out of pots, but in specific spots (and this is not one them)
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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You played it pretty good I think.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Cool thx guys
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Raise flop to $62, close to pot on turn.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Yeah you dont have too much FE but the only hand your not essentially flipping with is AA. Sometimes you can fold out JJ/QQ but its not likely.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Yeah you dont have too much FE but the only hand your not essentially flipping with is AA. Sometimes you can fold out JJ/QQ but its not likely.
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why not check back the turn if we raise flop?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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i raise the flop here. 130bbs isnt deep.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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i think i like CR flop as well, our hand oop just has so little value on later streets and we really can't count on him betting so weak.
i think most cases if we c/c here we c/f to any reasonable turn bet unelss we hit an ace or flush...
just because he limp-minraised doesn't mean he's definitely got KK/AA i see them doing this sometimes with a huge range of cards and if that range ever includes lower FD's you're absolutely pwning them here.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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ISF I still don't see the point of raising flop, this is an overpair from a fish almost every time, and they want to get the money in. why flip when you can flat and draw for less. I just see little to no FE on flop raise
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
ISF I still don't see the point of raising flop, this is an overpair from a fish almost every time, and they want to get the money in. why flip when you can flat and draw for less. I just see little to no FE on flop raise
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this is AA/KK sometimes, but not EVERY time. villain could be doing this with alot of hands especially if hero has been iso raising vs his limps alot.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
ISF I still don't see the point of raising flop, this is an overpair from a fish almost every time, and they want to get the money in. why flip when you can flat and draw for less. I just see little to no FE on flop raise
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this
i dont see why we cant just call for a flush when we can still get paid a decent clip.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
ISF I still don't see the point of raising flop, this is an overpair from a fish almost every time, and they want to get the money in. why flip when you can flat and draw for less. I just see little to no FE on flop raise
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this is AA/KK sometimes, but not EVERY time. villain could be doing this with alot of hands especially if hero has been iso raising vs his limps alot. |
True, but aren't we ahead of a lot of his air? 
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
ISF I still don't see the point of raising flop, this is an overpair from a fish almost every time, and they want to get the money in. why flip when you can flat and draw for less. I just see little to no FE on flop raise
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this is AA/KK sometimes, but not EVERY time. villain could be doing this with alot of hands especially if hero has been iso raising vs his limps alot. |
True, but aren't we ahead of a lot of his air? |
yes, but we only hit our flush 1/3 of the time and its never a bad thing to take down a pot w/ A high.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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He has something stupid more often than you think, particularly if you've been leaning on him.
Unless he's just going to give it away, I'd just jam the pot.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Some fish will 3bet this size constantly, others will do it only w/ nutted hands. W/out knowing which type this is, it makes it pretty tough to know if raising or just calling is better.
I feel like raising the flop isn't good since I expect him to at least call basically every time, and when we don't hit the turn, our equity in the pot is cut in half and our fold equity remains at zero ....
If he assume he's going to pay us off if we hit our flush, and that some of the times he's going to either give us great odds on the turn, or just check the turn, why do we want to build a big pot w/out a made hand against a station w/ what we perceive to be a monster?
Dunno, don't get ISF's argument.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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maybe one item that's throwing some people off in this spot is that we're not 100bb deep and that does change things a bit.
is your arguement for not CR flop and betting hard on turn that you really don't think this person is capable of folding? does this person ignore being 130bb's deep etc even if they have JJ or something here?
perhaps the most important thing really here is a better read on the fish. is this the first time this entire session they've min3bet? basically if i'm at a table and i see this done twice in a short time they lose all credit for monster hands.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Dont forget its not just a min-3bet, its a limp/min-3bet.
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Just playing to improve.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Opp hasn't min3bet previously.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Definately fish can pick weird spots to pull this move and I've seen them turn up with trash a few times, but a lot of times they have QQ+
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Just playing to improve.
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gumbler888
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6
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i totaly agree with marshall
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