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200bb's deep against LAGG OOP

  
 
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griffey24
Old 09-28-2007, 08:23 PM     Post subject: 200bb's deep against LAGG OOP #1 (permalink)  
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 Hey guys, just wanted to get some feedback I had in a hand today.

Villain has been laggy, running about 42/42 over a hundred or so hands (so not a huge sample, but still). he's been 3-betting a lot, but hasn't shown down that many hands. The hands he's shown have been decent, and I've also seen him fold a few times, so he's not completely fishy.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $933
UTG+1: $287.25
CO: $278
Button: $944
SB: $767.85
BB: $1037.35

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $20, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button raises to $80, 2 folds, Hero raises to $250, CO folds, Button calls.

Flop: ($527, 2 players)
Hero bets ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-28-2007, 08:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 100bb deep?

If so just all in.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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griffey24
Old 09-28-2007, 08:30 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
100bb deep?

If so just all in.
sorry.. just put in stacks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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ChrisTheFish
Old 09-28-2007, 08:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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You repped a big hand preflop, just shove the flop.
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griffey24
Old 09-28-2007, 08:55 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTheFish
You repped a big hand preflop, just shove the flop.
Push like $600+ into $530.

I just wasn't sure in this spot. This flop is like the perfect flop for AA to get paid, but the worst flop for AK to get a fold. But check fold seems crazy here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 09-29-2007, 12:23 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 A-K's equity in a typical 4bet pot where villain has just called is poor - ~18% (K-K+). But when giving villain a pretty generous range here (Q-Q+, A-K), we actually about 30% equity.

But, we have basically zero fold equity against hands we are losing to since they called the 4bet and this was an ideal flop for Q-Q+, and have no reason to try to fold out the rest of his likely range (A-K). And we have very poor equity against his calling range to a shove (~17%).

Definitely check/fold the flop. If you hit an Ace/King on the turn, i check/call my stack in.

This may be a good reason to not 4bet A-K deepstacked since this is an ugly spot this deep. With 100BB though against such a range getting it all in on the flop isn't a mistake - as long as you are putting it in first ofc.
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Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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zook
Old 09-29-2007, 12:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I 4bet smaller, like to $180-$200. I wouldn't shove $680 into $530 pot b/c I wouldn't do it with AA/KK. I'd probably bet something small with those hands, like $250. Problem is, if you do that here and he shoves for $430 more, you're getting attractive odds to call (still not the right odds if he has TT+ though). Meh, tough spot. I think c/f'ing is ok actually. There's a chance he'll give you a free card too.
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benny999
Old 09-29-2007, 02:33 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
A-K's equity in a typical 4bet pot where villain has just called is poor - ~18% (K-K+). But when giving villain a pretty generous range here (Q-Q+, A-K), we actually about 30% equity.

But, we have basically zero fold equity against hands we are losing to since they called the 4bet and this was an ideal flop for Q-Q+, and have no reason to try to fold out the rest of his likely range (A-K). And we have very poor equity against his calling range to a shove (~17%).

Definitely check/fold the flop. If you hit an Ace/King on the turn, i check/call my stack in.

This may be a good reason to not 4bet A-K deepstacked since this is an ugly spot this deep. With 100BB though against such a range getting it all in on the flop isn't a mistake - as long as you are putting it in first ofc.
i agree, except a laggy villain can have a wider range, including even like QJs, ATs, 77, etc. i think the logic is that he senses frustration and puts hero on AK or just a random 4bet bluff, and see what happens on the flop.

still i like check folding, but i'm not sure it's better than the other options, except prob overbetting all in.
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Genitruc
Old 09-29-2007, 04:13 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point
 pretty sick spot

i like CR ai if you think he'll bet a large part of his range

if you think he s capable of laying down hands I like setting up a turn shove with a flop bet
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 09-29-2007, 04:16 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 ya actually I like bet-call on the flop (commit yourself by betting 380) esp if you ll be seeing this guy again (hadn't checked eff stacks when I suggested CR ai)
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 09-29-2007, 08:05 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Thanks for the replies so far. So I decided to do that a few people said to do and bet.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $933
UTG+1: $287.25
CO: $278
Button: $944
SB: $767.85
BB: $1037.35

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $20, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button raises to $80, 2 folds, Hero raises to $250, CO folds, Button calls.

Flop: ($527, 2 players)
Hero bets $290, Button calls.

Turn: ($1107, 2 players)
Hero .. UGH <-- is it possible to EVERRR have any fold equity here? lol.. god... just thinking of check folding here so far in makes me sick. Check fold I guess?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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