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2 tough ones (I think) from 2nite

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-29-2008, 03:37 AM     Post subject: 2 tough ones (I think) from 2nite #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain has been here for a few orbits only, seems like a loose-passive donk (no stats yet).

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 28, 21:17:46 ET 2008
Table Jackpot #1306723 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: Secchan ( $222.64 USD )
Seat 4: monkeytilt_ ( $340 USD )
Seat 5: Messia222 ( $440.14 USD )
Seat 6: adapt_filter ( $369.30 USD )
Seat 2: HERO ( $180 USD )
Seat 1: Lalabaer ( $147 USD )
monkeytilt_ posts small blind [$1 USD].
Messia222 posts big blind [$2 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO
HERO: hmmm
adapt_filter folds.
Lalabaer folds.
HERO raises [$8 USD]
Secchan folds.
monkeytilt_ folds.
Messia222 calls [$6 USD]
** Dealing Flop **
Messia222 bets [$6 USD]
HERO raises [$21 USD]
Messia222 calls [$15 USD]
** Dealing Turn **
Messia222 checks.
HERO bets [$46 USD]
Messia222 raises [$92 USD]
HERO…

Villain here is 17/11/4. I’ve been raising a ton trying to get at a whale seated behind this villain. He hasn’t played back at me yet. Nothing odd about his timing.

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 28, 21:47:37 ET 2008
Table Jackpot #1306723 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: Secchan ( $234.75 USD )
Seat 4: monkeytilt_ ( $333.90 USD )
Seat 5: Messia222 ( $149.54 USD )
Seat 2: HERO ( $402.30 USD )
Seat 1: Lalabaer ( $226.45 USD )
Seat 6: Budwa_555 ( $53.15 USD )
Secchan posts small blind [$1 USD].
monkeytilt_ posts big blind [$2 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO
Messia222 folds.
Budwa_555 folds.
Lalabaer folds.
HERO raises [$8 USD]
Secchan raises [$25 USD]
monkeytilt_ folds.
HERO calls [$18 USD]
** Dealing Flop **
Secchan bets [$38 USD]
HERO calls [$38 USD]
** Dealing Turn **
Secchan bets [$75 USD]
HERO…
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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nutsinho
Old 02-29-2008, 04:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 1. all in
2. all in
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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gabe
Old 02-29-2008, 04:13 AM #3 (permalink)  
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min raise him back

and plz fold preflop
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will641
Old 02-29-2008, 04:16 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 1) that is kind of a shitty spot, but it just seems like AsXx might be in his range too much, as well as straights with or without a spade. plus you only have a 90bb stack, so it even if ur up against a flush, it isnt that costly.

2) bleh. this sucks but i think its a fold. hes only repping two hands AA/KK, and he probably plays AQ the same way. i dont think too many villains are going to do be making multi street bluffs in 3 bet pots. especially a 17/11/4 type.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-29-2008, 05:01 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 1). he can definitely show up with a set or a straight

2). i'm felting the flop
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Fnord
Old 02-29-2008, 05:30 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I think you can let the AQ go pre-flop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-29-2008, 05:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 ya AQ is usually a fold for me vs this villain but in this spot I had been isolating so damn much I really thought (gasp) that villain would start playing back at least once in a while.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-29-2008, 05:45 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 btw Fnord that video linked from your sig is epic
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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nutsinho
Old 02-29-2008, 05:52 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 at first i thought fold preflop for #2, but it is button vs sb. im not sure about vs a 17/11, but vs most decent players youre giving up something by folding AQ pre in this spot.
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Marshall28
Old 02-29-2008, 06:45 AM #10 (permalink)  
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1st hand ... you have to get it in ... otherwise why are you raising 35s ???? you made what you ewre looking for, and now that he shows some resistance u r scared? ... naked As is definitely in his range ... and makes a lot of sense .. if he has bigger flush, whatever it's a cooler, just dont raise 35s ... check in PT if it's a profitable hand for u .. i get all in here and it's profitable for me..


ummm ... you made a huge fundamental mistake in #2 ....

why are you calling? because you think you have the best hand? if you think you have the best hand preflop, and you improve on the flop ... how can you not still assume you have the best hand? ...... its like ... if you thought u were good, u shoulda 4bet him, if u thought 4betting him forces him to fold all worse and call only better then u shoulda called to felt a lot of flops ... especially one where u flop TPTK ...

basic rule of thumb --- don't fold tptk in 3bet pots.
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Fnord
Old 02-29-2008, 07:42 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
ya AQ is usually a fold for me vs this villain but in this spot I had been isolating so damn much I really thought (gasp) that villain would start playing back at least once in a while.
I fall into this trap sometimes too. Then again, I rarely totally LAgg it up. 5CD taught me how to shift gears and get the best of my opponent's timing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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wufwugy
Old 02-29-2008, 08:37 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 1. Probably just call flop. Fnord coined the phrase 'mistake equity' and I like it here. We have a good hand, but not the nuts, so let's call his wimpy bet since it looks like villain has a nice likelyhood of making a mistake on a latter street that will aid our flop decision.

2. Fold AQ to 3ball no doubt. Most players are so bad that they adjust to lags by tightening up (or at least keeping tight standards). I guess they simply think they're just gonna get paid. Also they're obviously weak and don't wanna play outa their element vs somebody who they think is threatening their stack. Yeah it's weird.
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-29-2008, 08:59 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
1. Probably just call flop. Fnord coined the phrase 'mistake equity' and I like it here. We have a good hand, but not the nuts, so let's call his wimpy bet since it looks like villain has a nice likelyhood of making a mistake on a latter street that will aid our flop decision.

2. Fold AQ to 3ball no doubt. Most players are so bad that they adjust to lags by tightening up (or at least keeping tight standards). I guess they simply think they're just gonna get paid. Also they're obviously weak and don't wanna play outa their element vs somebody who they think is threatening their stack. Yeah it's weird.
hmmm even if I give him a tight range of 99+ and AJs + I still think AQ in button vs sb is a call when I have position and have no reason to believe he'll bluff me off the best hand a whole lot

had I raised in EP I'd be pitching this pretty much 100%
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Fnord
Old 02-29-2008, 09:27 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Fnord coined the phrase 'mistake equity'
Fnord stole the concept from Ed Miller.

As for the AQ hand, it's a tight fold, if he's inclined to play-back it's too tight. But given how people auto-pilot lots of tables and we haven't seen cause to think he's adjusting I would give him a nit mulligan here and make a small mistake in a small pot rather than feel like a total aggro donkey in a bigger pot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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wufwugy
Old 02-29-2008, 11:13 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Fnord coined the phrase 'mistake equity'
Fnord stole the concept from Ed Miller.
Not in my book Fnord didn't.

In my book Fnord is an excellent asset to hold em strategies and needs to post more. Or at least post in my threads more.
 
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wufwugy
Old 02-29-2008, 11:17 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
hmmm even if I give him a tight range of 99+ and AJs + I still think AQ in button vs sb is a call when I have position and have no reason to believe he'll bluff me off the best hand a whole lot

had I raised in EP I'd be pitching this pretty much 100%
First, I don't think AQ is profitable even to that range since there's three streets of mystery left. We lose a lot of value postflop vs pairs lower than Q, and if anybody's gonna fold the best hand it's us.

Second, he's a 17/11. He doesn't understand BvB.
 
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Marshall28
Old 02-29-2008, 11:19 AM #17 (permalink)  
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wow, u guys are passive
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wufwugy
Old 02-29-2008, 11:28 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 If it makes you feel better Marshall I would never fold AQ to you.
 
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griffey24
Old 02-29-2008, 12:21 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 - I don't mind felting turn here, cause JQ just made a straight as well. If the turn spade was more of a blank (2s) I'd be more tempted to call down sometimes and shove others.

hand 2 - I don't mind calling AQ in position sometimes, depends how often you're stealing and he's defending. As played, if he's seen you shove draws on flops in 3-bet pots I like a shove. Otherwise I don't mind the flop call+turn shove, since he prob doesn't have hearts and likely is drawing to at best 3 outs with AK or something.
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biondino
Old 02-29-2008, 12:28 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Damn Marshall, your posts are hard to read.

Push hand 1, fo sho.
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Alexos
Old 02-29-2008, 11:19 PM #21 (permalink)  
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 shove 1st

against that guy I fold AQ pre, tough spot postflop but I stackoff and convince myself its a cooler:P
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microgrinder
Old 03-01-2008, 12:00 AM #22 (permalink)  
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I'd just like to note that hand #1 is a ridiculously easy felt and I do mean easy. If his range is: {QJ and every single flush out there that beats you} you'd still be correct in felting. I'd go as far as saying this is a fist pump shove .

Hand #2 is a tougher one. I think all streets are quite close, but I probably fold preflop, but if you think he's adjusting to you I guess this would be a mistake. If he isn't adjusting then folding preflop is fine I think. I probably felt it if I end up seeing flop.
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Genitruc
Old 03-01-2008, 01:20 AM #23 (permalink)  
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 ok thx for replies

i felted both and beat J7 in hand one and villain folded turn in hand 2

i ve just been so fucked up by variance I figured I'd post what seem to be pretty easy felts when I'm running normally. Thx for reminding me of that.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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nutsinho
Old 03-01-2008, 04:48 AM #24 (permalink)  
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 yw
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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will641
Old 03-01-2008, 05:12 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
yw
come again?
Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
 
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Halv
Old 03-01-2008, 06:11 AM #26 (permalink)  
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yw

edit: yeah, get it in somehow in the first one. Second one is a bit more iffy but I think I like call/{call or bet if he checks riv}

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Genitruc
Old 03-01-2008, 06:15 AM #27 (permalink)  
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 calling turn is prob better in 2nd one

i m not folding out a better hand and onloy worried about a K or a 2 outer
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Marshall28
Old 03-01-2008, 08:09 AM #28 (permalink)  
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its an image issue. if u are ever calling in position vs this player you want to be making all in plays on the flop w/ hands like tptk as well as air .. .its like ... u need to balance your ranges vs thinking players and if he has any idea how to play he's going to know that this all in is a standard play from a wide range. he happens to call w/ a marginal hand and see u showdown AQ, u get mad credit next time the same situation comes up.
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Ragnar4
Old 03-01-2008, 12:14 PM #29 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
If it makes you feel better Marshall I would never fold AQ to you.
I admidt it, I giggled.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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mrhappy333
Old 03-23-2008, 01:38 PM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
btw Fnord that video linked from your sig is epic
what video?
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Genitruc
Old 03-23-2008, 05:50 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhappy333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
btw Fnord that video linked from your sig is epic
what video?
hmm he changed it ; it was a bunch of robots or something lypsynching a eurotrash techno song with a bunch of computer lingo
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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