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2 silly KJ hands

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Irisheyes

06-25-2009, 08:20 AM Post subject: 2 silly KJ hands

#1 (permalink)

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Villain is straightforward TAG reg, 22/17/3.2, he cbets too much but the other guy in the pot on the flop is a fish so he's probably weighted somewhat towards value.

$2.5/$5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($569.90)
CO ($837.54)
Hero (BTN) ($671.00)
SB ($467.54)
BB ($615.81)

Pre-flop: ($7.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN

1 fold, CO raises to $17.50, Hero calls $17.50, SB calls $15, 1 fold

Flop:

($57.50, 3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $43.12, Hero raises to $111, SB folds, CO calls $67.88

Turn:

($279.50, 2 players)
CO bets $139.75, $139.75 to Hero ($542.50)?

Second hand is against an aggro villain who plays 25/20/3.3 but 3bets 12% of the time over my 600 hand sample. He also cbets way too much. I get the early impression that he errs on the side of not folding when he feels pressured (a couple of times I bluff 4bet him preflop and he shipped all but one time) but this could be a premature read.

Anyone hate the flop raise? I know I don't rep much but I need some way of combating his preflop aggression.
Ship the turn or give up?

$2.5/$5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($1703.36)
Hero (BTN) ($598.50)
SB ($711.52)
BB ($700.05)

Pre-flop: ($7.50, 4 players) Hero is BTN

1 fold, Hero raises to $17.50, SB raises to $60, 1 fold, Hero calls $42.50

Flop:

($125, 2 players)
SB bets $75, Hero raises to $156, SB calls $81

Turn:

($437, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero ($382.50)?

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06-25-2009, 09:39 AM

#2 (permalink)

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in hand 1, I just feel like we can call and fold river unimproved
but that's like based on the assumption villain is weak and doesn't shove river with his air like QsTc when he misses

I hate flop raise in hand 2
he's probably like "wtf" and calls with two overs or any pair

to combat his aggression preflop you should probably start felting lighter
so BU vs. SB he's probably 3bing something like 15% of his hands if not more because your range is wider
so you can 4b/get it in with 88+,AJs+,AQo+
first adjustment you should make is your should start raising your buttons 2.5x
that means that you lose less when you fold to a 3b, and his 3b size is smaller so it's more profitable to float him PF with hands like 98s because you're going to be able to play slightly deeper in position as opposed to opening 3.5x on the button and trying to flop top pair to go with

pocketfours

06-25-2009, 11:17 AM

#3 (permalink)

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omg hand 2

Irisheyes

06-25-2009, 01:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

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omg you minraised the flop or omg you minraised THIS flop?

I find that I get plenty of folds from villains who 3bet too much and cbet too much by minraising their cbets. I mean even if he folds KQ, KJ, QJ and some random T4s type hands the minraise is probably profitable. Obviously balancing it is an issue but we have zero history relating to this spot and I'm down for some rock, paper scissors.

Just thinking about this now though, since my flop raise is so small and his preflop range is so wide that probably means I should have a rather high turn shoving frequency right? So this turn is probably a good shove?

iopq, thanks and all but I already know all that stuff obv about combating 3betting.

Also back to hand 1 for a second, does anyone think my flop raise size is too small?

pocketfours

06-25-2009, 01:20 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

omg you minraised THIS flop

pocketfours

06-25-2009, 01:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

to combat his aggression preflop you should probably start felting lighter
so BU vs. SB he's probably 3bing something like 15% of his hands if not more because your range is wider
so you can 4b/get it in with 88+,AJs+,AQo+
first adjustment you should make is your should start raising your buttons 2.5x
that means that you lose less when you fold to a 3b, and his 3b size is smaller so it's more profitable to float him PF with hands like 98s because you're going to be able to play slightly deeper in position as opposed to opening 3.5x on the button and trying to flop top pair to go with

loooooooooooooooooooooool

06-25-2009, 01:37 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

iopq, thanks and all but I already know all that stuff obv about combating 3betting.

so what part of that leads you to minraise a flop he's never going to fold?

Irisheyes

06-25-2009, 01:54 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

iopq, thanks and all but I already know all that stuff obv about combating 3betting.

so what part of that leads you to minraise a flop he's never going to fold?

I meant the stuff about widening my 4bet ranges and opening smaller. And he will fold sometimes imo.

ATOTHEC101

06-25-2009, 02:57 PM

#9 (permalink)

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In hand 1 I flat the turn bet and fold any blank river if he bets big, and obv any spade river as the reason I'm calling turn is because I can see him doing this with pairs plus big spade that'll check the river. Turns possibly a fold but I don't think calling then reevalin the river is bad.

hand 2: preflop is fine, post is a definite hmmm, I get what your doing but this really is a terrible texture to be raising, you're basically reppin 97s, sets and maybe aa/kk. You should just give up turn imo and hope to spike a k j or 10. I much prefer floating the flop than raising, specially as he'll often be barreling j and specifcally k turns.

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griffey24

06-25-2009, 02:59 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

so BU vs. SB he's probably 3bing something like 15% of his hands if not more because your range is wider
so you can 4b/get it in with 88+,AJs+,AQo+

I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that based on him having shipped a few times. Just because someone is 3betting 15% of their hands does not at all mean they are 5bet shoving over 4bets light. If someone is 3betting wide but folding to 4bets and only jamming a narrow value range, you're better off just 4bet bluffing more (with blockers or something).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

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I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

06-25-2009, 04:23 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

so BU vs. SB he's probably 3bing something like 15% of his hands if not more because your range is wider
so you can 4b/get it in with 88+,AJs+,AQo+

there is no range that you can assign him with his high 3b that 4b/calling that range would be unprofitable
because usually someone with a high 3b will felt lighter against a 4b since they're used to being played back at
basically if you're 3bing 15% and folding to 60% of 4bs you're doing it horribly, horribly wrong

griffey24

06-25-2009, 04:47 PM

#12 (permalink)

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If you're 3betting 15% and seldomly getting 4bet bluffed or 4bet for value light, then certainly folding to the majority of times you get 4bet is still fine. The fact is that at lower stakes people just aren't 4betting light enough that these aggro players have to adjust. Just because you widen your range doesn't mean that 90% of players at 100nl will.

Even at higher stakes there are very very few ppl that I would consider 4bet/calling off AJs against, as opposed to just flatting IP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

06-25-2009, 05:07 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

well he's either going to be folding to a lot of 4bs or 5b bluffing a lot
either way if you 4b he's either going to fold or try to 5b bluff when we catch him with shit cards (which is 2/3 of the time he 3bs us here)

so we're already making money no matter what he does, we just make less money if he never shoves his bluffs
but it sounds like that's not a problem we'd have with this particular opponent if he's shoved over a few 4bs

IowaSkinsFan

06-25-2009, 08:10 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Hand 1: call turn, reval river

Hand 2: I call everything im deciding to play here

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meeloche

06-25-2009, 08:13 PM

#15 (permalink)

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1) I would call and reeval and I don't see anything wrong with your flop sizing.

2) I'd rather flat then raise the flop but I think I'd still prefer finding a better spot.

Alexos

06-25-2009, 08:28 PM

#16 (permalink)

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1) id call turn since its pretty small, and fold river.

2)agree with flatting flop. as played i check turn, i cant imagine him folding any pair. VBetting river smallish if i hit a J ++

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IowaSkinsFan

06-25-2009, 11:46 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Posts: 7,148

Hand 2 you cant do anything else after he raises, its would be ridiculous to argue his range is unbalanced here.

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2 silly KJ hands

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