Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

  > 

2 river shove bluffs, one vs. nitgators

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
mixchange
Old 04-24-2008, 01:28 AM     Post subject: 2 river shove bluffs, one vs. nitgators #1 (permalink)  
mixchange's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
mixchange
Send a message via AIM to mixchange
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($186.35)
Hero ($106.65)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($50.65)
BB ($102.60)
UTG ($114.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($17.50) 2, 3, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($45.50) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $25, Hero calls $25.

River: ($95.50) J (2 players)
Hero bets $59.65 (All-In)

21/17 dont really know him, but people are so scared of the flush and most ppl at 100nl will shove it when it hits. i think he has an overpair based on his flop/ turn bet.

flop is a floatish (maybe im ahead), turn i shove any diamond or spade

i take pot with spade, i get paid a whole stack w/ diamond, maybe an ace or 8


Hand 2

brag but seriously, how often can i get away with this? whats a normal calling range here for villain

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($184.55)
BB ($31.85)
UTG ($153.40)
MP ($65.15)
Hero ($115.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $3, 2 folds.

Flop: ($7.50) , , (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($17.50) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $11, UTG raises to $34, Hero calls $23.

River: ($85.50) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $73.35 (All-In), UTG folds.

Final Pot: $85.50

FGators26 said, "quads obv"
FGators26 said, "had to be"
hero said, "pair of 7s"
FGators26 said, "that is the dumbest push ever if u did, which u didnt"




i just dont think he has the balls. i snap call turn and pause/ shove river

EDIT: forgot his "quads obv" chat line. heh
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Roel
Old 04-24-2008, 03:44 AM #2 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 88
Roel
1) Played it good, you might get a called by an overpair here though but this makes u so hard to read. Like it.

2) b/f turn. He has any pair over 99 or a 9 he'll call u on the river. Well i would. But judging by his chat line i think he has A high here. Maybe 22. But you'll only get called by worse hands. I'd rather let him bluff and snap him off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
If he's not calling my shove, I'm done with it.
 
Reply With Quote
IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-24-2008, 04:41 AM #3 (permalink)  
IowaSkinsFan's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
 2nd one seems okay first one is really bad.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
Reply With Quote
silu73
Old 04-24-2008, 05:20 AM #4 (permalink)  
silu73's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
silu73
I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.
Reply With Quote
mixchange
Old 04-24-2008, 05:59 AM #5 (permalink)  
mixchange's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
mixchange
Send a message via AIM to mixchange
1st one is bad vs. good players, but good vs. bad players at this stake imo

bad players fold when a flush card hits at this stake and my line looks like a flush to them. the backdoor draw they arent seeing. so i have tons of outs on the turn.

good players expect you to raise draws bad players dont.
Reply With Quote
jimmy44
Old 04-24-2008, 08:08 AM #6 (permalink)  
jimmy44's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
jimmy44 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by silu73
I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.
Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?
Reply With Quote
jimmy44
Old 04-24-2008, 08:11 AM #7 (permalink)  
jimmy44's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
jimmy44 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by silu73
I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.
Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?
I prefer a 1/2-1/3 pot bet on river, where he would call with 22-66 and maybe with A high.
Reply With Quote
wufwugy
Old 04-24-2008, 08:33 AM #8 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
wufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to all
 hand two is vs fgators.

fgators folds way too much.

i wonder if bet/bet/shove every other hand vs him will show a profit.
 
Reply With Quote
Marshall28
Old 04-24-2008, 10:12 AM #9 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
Marshall28
1st hand is really bad. shove on river is terrible, if you were gonna shove a spade river, u shoulda crai on turn. he's not folding an overpair almost ever, not even TT. you effectively turned your hand into a bluff. river shoulda gone check/bet/fold.

2nd hand i think is just lucky, only an idiot like fgators would actually put someone on quads, lol. i think u get snapped off really often here.
Reply With Quote
Marshall28
Old 04-24-2008, 10:13 AM #10 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
Marshall28
either that, or it was a sick read and his "quads obv" line was meant to save his dignity cuz he had only high cards and wanted to make it "look" like he was making a "good" fold ... lol... thats actually quite a bit more likely scenario considering its fgators
Reply With Quote
wufwugy
Old 04-24-2008, 10:47 AM #11 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
wufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to all
 naw gators prolly folded top boat
 
Reply With Quote
Cocco_Bill
Old 04-24-2008, 11:25 AM #12 (permalink)  
Cocco_Bill's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
Cocco_Bill
the first river push is horrible no matter who you play against
Reply With Quote
jimmy44
Old 04-24-2008, 11:39 AM #13 (permalink)  
jimmy44's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
jimmy44 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
naw gators prolly folded top boat
I see that PS still have some nice fishes
Reply With Quote
pocketfours
Old 04-24-2008, 12:10 PM #14 (permalink)  
pocketfours's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
pocketfours will become famous soon enough
 Nice to see some hands where I can disagree with the majority again

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.

2. I also don't know why many here like the second one so much, I hate it. What sort of moron would ever check this river with an overpair? He has ace high here like always. Bet $11 again and fistpump+call a shove.
Reply With Quote
Muzzard
Old 04-24-2008, 12:25 PM #15 (permalink)  
Muzzard's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
Muzzard is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Muzzard Send a message via MSN to Muzzard
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
2. I also don't know why many here like the second one so much, I hate it. What sort of moron would ever check this river with an overpair? He has ace high here like always. Bet $11 again and fistpump+call a shove.
But fgators is a moron. LOL
Reply With Quote
Renton
Old 04-24-2008, 12:49 PM #16 (permalink)  
Renton's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
Renton will become famous soon enough
 hand one just fold flop.
hand two just fold turn.


as played hand one is terrible
as played hand two is terrible, just check behind the best hand
Reply With Quote
Marshall28
Old 04-24-2008, 01:58 PM #17 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
Marshall28
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Nice to see some hands where I can disagree with the majority again :)

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.
if showdown value is < less than 38% chance hand is good:
then i agree, but not quite sure that statement is true.
Reply With Quote
Toadstool
Old 04-24-2008, 03:50 PM #18 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
Toadstool will become famous soon enough
 I agree with P4's here, the first one is fine, if you assume there is a good chance he will stack off if an 8/A or diamond hits? however I don;t think that he will very often as he is not betting as though he has an overpair - 25 into 45 with two flush draws and a straight draw - doesn't look as though he's protecting his hand, which is why I think shoving river si good as he won't have a good enough hand to call very often.

Hand 2 i hate, you must think you are ahead if u call turn, which i think is bad against fgators as he is such a 'nit' also you are almost never getting anyone to fold anything better than you have on that board. As he checked the river he probably has two high cards, so your best bet is to try and induce a bluff shove on the river with a really small bet of about 10-15.
Reply With Quote
IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-24-2008, 04:19 PM #19 (permalink)  
IowaSkinsFan's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.
He'll only fold an overpair sometimes. This play wont work 50% of the time so it is bad. BUT okay, its not super horrible, just bad.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
Reply With Quote
pocketfours
Old 04-24-2008, 04:58 PM #20 (permalink)  
pocketfours's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
pocketfours will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
He'll only fold an overpair sometimes. This play wont work 50% of the time so it is bad. BUT okay, its not super horrible, just bad.
If it works 39% it's good. He doesn't have an overpair every time either. But ok, let's say it was 'bad'.
Reply With Quote
Deanglow
Old 04-24-2008, 05:06 PM #21 (permalink)  
Deanglow's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
Deanglow is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roel
1) Played it good, you might get a called by an overpair here though but this makes u so hard to read. Like it.

2) b/f turn. He has any pair over 99 or a 9 he'll call u on the river. Well i would. But judging by his chat line i think he has A high here. Maybe 22. But you'll only get called by worse hands. I'd rather let him bluff and snap him off.
I don't mean to be harsh, but stop posting advice. Post some hands yourself and get acquainted with NL holdem.

Hand 1 is terrible. The only good street is the flop. On the river, instead of letting him bluff you just push and fold out all hands that might have bet the river and have him call you with everything you're losing to.

Hand 2 check the turn and fold river if he bets
 
Reply With Quote
ZwiFT
Old 04-24-2008, 05:16 PM #22 (permalink)  
ZwiFT's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
ZwiFT is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to ZwiFT Send a message via AIM to ZwiFT Send a message via MSN to ZwiFT
Wow man, hand one is really terrible, has he been 3bet/min 3bet/ you light? Vs some players its best to fold this preflop. And yeah as played i either c/f or c/r. I will be more inclined to c/f vs a player that doesnt cbet alot, but i guess this guy would cbet IP a 3bet PF flop 100% of the time.
Reply With Quote
Roel
Old 04-24-2008, 05:35 PM #23 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 88
Roel
Wow. Ok so i am reasonably new here but i play this game and these levels for a few years now. And i post 'advice' to get feedback as well.

I don't post to 'teach' other players, i read and post to try to learn the game. I really thought (and still not entirely convinced otherwise) that the first hand was played well. Against a player that puts u on a spade draw, you essentially have 20 'outs' (disregarding the 8's, and the fact that he may be on a draw), and any spade, diamond, ace or 8 will put him in a tough spot on the river. That is why i like it.

But anybody please don't follow my advice blindly here or in any other post. As i don't follow anybody else's blindly. We are here to learn, right?

Don't mean to snap off your reaction to my post but if more of u guys agree i should just read and not post this 'advice' please tell me and i'll stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
If he's not calling my shove, I'm done with it.
 
Reply With Quote
griffey24
Old 04-24-2008, 05:51 PM #24 (permalink)  
griffey24's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
griffey24 is on a distinguished road
 Hand 1 - This depends on your image. I can't pull this off cause I'm gonna get snapped off here, but if your image is good I think it's good.

Hand 2- I really don't like this. I don't think you bluffed him here, I think in this hand (and whenever he folds) you actually have the best hand. Just check it through.
Reply With Quote
minSim
Old 04-24-2008, 05:51 PM #25 (permalink)  
minSim's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
minSim
Quote:
hand one just fold flop.
Quote:
Hand 1 is terrible. The only good street is the flop. On the river, instead of letting him bluff you just push and fold out all hands that might have bet the river and have him call you with everything you're losing to.
Preflop is standard right on hand 1?
On the flop I actually don't see any other line than c/c...what's wrong with it Renton?
So to me, preflop and flop are standard. As played being on this turn, what's our best option?
I agree c/f or maybe c/c on river.

Hand 2, I'd check behind turn and call river bet or bet river myself.
Reply With Quote
EzDuzIt
Old 04-24-2008, 06:40 PM #26 (permalink)  
EzDuzIt's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
EzDuzIt
why are you turning hand 1 into a bluff? better hands arent folding and you have a decent bluff catcher if he is aggro enough,
Reply With Quote
nutsinho
Old 04-24-2008, 07:46 PM #27 (permalink)  
nutsinho's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
nutsinho will become famous soon enough
 i agree with pocketfours. let me reiterate how terrible #2 is, and im curious why anyone would think it is good even against a folding station. #1 is certainly decent at worst though.
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
Reply With Quote
will641
Old 04-24-2008, 08:08 PM #28 (permalink)  
will641's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
will641 is on a distinguished road
 im curious in #1 if you were planning on shoving the river here when you made the turn call. if so i like a check/shove on the turn a lot better than c/c and then shove.
Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
 
Reply With Quote
Toadstool
Old 04-24-2008, 10:04 PM #29 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
Toadstool will become famous soon enough
 C/Shove the turn is far worse than call turn shove river spade/diamond/8/A as you are getting called almost all the time by an overpair, whereas you have decent fold equity the way you played it, to villain surely this line must look like a flush a high% of the time
Reply With Quote
IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-24-2008, 10:41 PM #30 (permalink)  
IowaSkinsFan's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
 I think you really need to have played with fgators to get hand 2. I'm pretty sure he folds KK here, and even plays it this way. Fold turn though.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
Reply With Quote
griffey24
Old 04-24-2008, 11:00 PM #31 (permalink)  
griffey24's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
griffey24 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think you really need to have played with fgators to get hand 2. I'm pretty sure he folds KK here, and even plays it this way. Fold turn though.
I've never played him.. but come onnn.. how can a reg ever be THATTTT nitty to fold KK here? lol

Hero's line looks exactly like a midpair, and given preflop hero rarely rarely ever has a 4 here. Pretty brutal if this guy is folding overpairs here.
Reply With Quote
mixchange
Old 04-25-2008, 01:17 AM #32 (permalink)  
mixchange's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
mixchange
Send a message via AIM to mixchange
Quote:
Originally Posted by will641
im curious in #1 if you were planning on shoving the river here when you made the turn call. if so i like a check/shove on the turn a lot better than c/c and then shove.
I take pot with spade, i get paid a whole stack w/ diamond, ace, 8

otherwise I give up.

#1 is like so horrible if i don't have it here that it works. People just think, what else can he have except the flush? at this stake people don't call all ins light. a lot of people commenting here I don't think are remembering what 100nl is like. At higher stakes the line makes 0 sense but I think it makes a lot of sense at 100nl.

Hand #2 I intended really 2 comments
a) what is your calling range here
b) what is fgators calling range here. hahahahah


pocketfours, do you know the fagator saga? he loses all his money by foldz. apply pressure is the recipe on him, different animal than a std player. hyper nit
Reply With Quote
Marshall28
Old 04-25-2008, 01:17 AM #33 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
Marshall28
griffey:

reference to fgators play:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...gators+clayton
Reply With Quote
silu73
Old 04-25-2008, 01:27 AM #34 (permalink)  
silu73's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
silu73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
Quote:
Originally Posted by silu73
I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.
Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?
fgators would. He has A-high here often enough but knowing him he would fold 9x or TT heck even JJ.
Reply With Quote
nutsinho
Old 04-25-2008, 03:42 AM #35 (permalink)  
nutsinho's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
nutsinho will become famous soon enough
 fgators isnt bad enough to fold jj+ in that hand, theres no way any sane human being would think that it is a good idea to c/f river with those hands
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
Bbickes Old 06-02-2012, 08:10 PM    Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:24 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.