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2 JJ as overpair folds

  
 
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freechus9
Old 08-04-2008, 04:35 AM     Post subject: 2 JJ as overpair folds #1 (permalink)  
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These made me want to barf a little, but I think they are completely std.

1 - Villain is complete unknown, first few hands at table. In retrospect I think I like a river c/c since nothing worse really calls..

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($120.20)
BB ($99.65)
UTG ($75.55)
Hero ($103)
Button ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J.
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, Button raises to $10, 2 folds, Hero calls $7.

Flop: ($21.50) 7, T, 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($41.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($41.50) T (2 players)
Hero bets $25, Button raises to $80, Hero folds.



2 - villain is 30/15/1 after a small sample, ~ 20 hands. I'm pretty sure this is std, but just double checking.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($108.65)
BB ($92)
UTG ($100.05)
MP ($151.55)
Hero ($98.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, Hero raises to $13, 2 folds, MP calls $9.

Flop: ($27.50) 4, 7, 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $18, MP raises to $138.55, Hero folds.
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BigLRIP
Old 08-04-2008, 07:49 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I'm confused about hand 1 and probably fold aswell. Check calling is good as you mentioned because he probably isn't reraising small pairs preflop.

Hand 2 is definately a call, especially against someone with those stats. This could be something as bad as J9o. This is a big fold, and I don't like making big folds to unknown fishy players.
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Renton
Old 08-04-2008, 08:10 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 i woudl just 4bet get it in pre with hand one and i would call hand two gleefully
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freechus9
Old 08-04-2008, 03:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLRIP
Hand 2 is definately a call, especially against someone with those stats. This could be something as bad as J9o. This is a big fold, and I don't like making big folds to unknown fishy players.
Are there any flops (barring overcards) that we wouldn't want to get it in against this guy? I can imagine a really bad flop being like 567 two tone, but even then a lot of his range is huge draws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
i woudl just 4bet get it in pre with hand one and i would call hand two gleefully
Do we 4bet/call a 5bet shove? Or do we 4bet shove outright? Also, I always thought QQ was my lower limit for getting it in pre vs. an unknown. Getting it in with JJ seems like total spew as we're flipping or a huge dog to villains stacking range.
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dalecooper
Old 08-04-2008, 03:34 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
i woudl just 4bet get it in pre with hand one and i would call hand two gleefully
Do we 4bet/call a 5bet shove? Or do we 4bet shove outright? Also, I always thought QQ was my lower limit for getting it in pre vs. an unknown. Getting it in with JJ seems like total spew as we're flipping or a huge dog to villains stacking range.
I don't know about 100 NL, but at 50 I agree with you - it's close to spew. The majority of unknowns are not stacking off with hands that JJ beats except AK.

I'm definitely calling in hand 2. Too many retards make this move with top pair or a straight draw. If he has a set, make a note on him and shrug it off. If he has two pair, your equity isn't inconsiderable anyway.
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Renton
Old 08-04-2008, 07:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 pretty sure getting jacks in bt/co for 100bb isn't a mistake anywhere in todays games. Also, even though he's unknown, he is 3-betting the button, and a non-donkish 3-bet size. I think chances are good that he's a tag.
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nutsinho
Old 08-05-2008, 04:56 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 1. get it in pre as played certainly check/evaluate river

2. uhhhhh call what are you doing
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