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Demiparadigm

04-07-2006, 03:32 AM Post subject: 2 interesting folds:

#1 (permalink)

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Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO raises to $4, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises to $13, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: 5

($31, 2 players)
Hero bets $22, CO calls.

Turn: 5

($75, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $50, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $50 returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: $75

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 8

UTG folds, CO raises to $3, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: T

($9, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, CO raises to $8, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 9

($33, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $24, SB calls, Hero raises to $48, CO folds, SB raises all-in $166.62, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $118.62 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $153

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aislephive

04-07-2006, 04:11 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Hand 1: What are you afraid of, a higher pair or a set? I would only check the turn with the intention of check raising all in. I don't like the turn fold though for sure.

Hand 2: Fold preflop, and definitely fold the flop. You flopped a gutshot straight draw and you bet out very weakly and then call a 8xbb raise, and then you don't get your money in when you hit your gutshot? I hate that. I think KJ is definitely a possibility, but if you are going to call the turn bet/raise with a gutshot you might as well play it when you hit. Your turn min-raise is pretty bad too. Just my .02

Demiparadigm

04-07-2006, 07:09 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

I could explain my reasoning, but I will wait for a few more replies.
As an aside, please do not ever again tell me what I should or should not play preflop. The question presented is whether a fold is correct where it was made. Other than that, thank you for your input.
Also, this is £100NL, so effectively $200NL 6 max. The units are wrong in the first post.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

aislephive

04-07-2006, 07:46 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

I'm confused, this is 200nl or 100nl? The betting patterns seem to indicate 100nl, whatever.

As for my post, I will post my opinion on all aspects of the hand. If you choose to make critical errors on every street then I will comment on them freely. Good say sir.

ender555

04-07-2006, 07:53 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 647

wow.. this seems pretty bad to me.

hand1: why are you checking the turn? unless he has aces or kings, you're way ahead of his range here. folding is out of the question...

hand 2:
Why call preflop, definitely a losing play.

Flop: why bet so small, they are never going to fold to this, and a lot of the times you get raised with any2.

turn: you turn a strait, you min-raise it, and then fold when you're getting very good odds to call, although you didn't include stack sizes. This is just ugly. I can see QQ/TT/KK/AA all playing it this way. While KK/AA is less likely, it's still very possible at this level. Unless you know that this player is insanely tight and will never push without the nuts, you should always call this.

But, on the other hand, you shouldn't of min-raised here either. thats a very major tell that good players will pick up on. make a solid raise here so that if a J or an 8 come, you still get payed off.

Demiparadigm

04-07-2006, 08:01 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Hmm... didn't notice stack sizes are missing. CO has ~150BBs. I have the table covered.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

ender555

04-07-2006, 08:12 AM

#7 (permalink)

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well the math is kind of confusing, but it looks like u have to call around 100 to win like 220~ and that makes this an easy call. he flips JK occasionally but i think you'll only see that a small percentage of the time. I would fold here if he had like a 500BB stack or something.

r8ed

04-07-2006, 02:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Reads?
Hand 1: What are stack sizes there BTW? I think you need to put him to the decision on the turn rather giving him the opportunity to put you to the decision. I like leading out 1/2 pot or so because it will not give out much info about your hand and now he has to consider the large range of hands you may have (since you probably reraise with a larger range than QQ+ I'm assuming). As played, I call the turn. I can see your thought process though - a Queen may be your only real out.

Hand 2: You played one of those tricky hidden hands with high implied odds and actually hit it. I think you should follow through. This guy may have hit his set or have 78s or something.

gabe

04-07-2006, 03:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

As an aside, please do not ever again tell me what I should or should not play preflop.

lol, the words of a wannabe lag running good

learn to take criticism and you might make more money

Warpe

04-07-2006, 03:05 PM

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Hand 1 - ...villain smooth calls your raise/flop bet...bigger overpair, frush, set, boat...yeah, I see folding here. No sense playing a big pot with so many ways to be beat.

Hand 2 - Think I follow through here, butt cheeks appropriately puckered.

ender555

04-07-2006, 05:08 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

I think it's very unlikely that villian has a flush or set on this flop, there would be no sense in slowplaying it. I thinking betting turn, and folding to a push(if he's tight) is the best line. If it's a loose player then I would probly call and put him on a pair+draw.

Fnord

04-07-2006, 05:24 PM

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Hand 1: Need a read, certainly not standard. Although I think it's close. In a 6 max game, I'm much more inclined to felt this.
Hand 2: Ok, loose pre-flop call, meh. I really don't get the flop, a weak bet followed by a call. Then we catch one of our 3 clean outs and now we're laying down a well concealed 2nd nut in a raised pot? SB's line is worrysome, but why can't it be a set or something donkish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

zenbitz

04-07-2006, 07:02 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Hand1... I think the Q-high FD + overpair allows you to at least call down. I don't hate it if your read is good that he has a set or flush.

Hand 2... You cannot fold the turn here. to KJ!???!? JXdiamonds???
No comments on pre-flop and flop... I assume you have some read here. If villian is raising air pre-flop and on the flop, then I guess you have 10 dirty outs. If he would push a flush draw harder (or no check raise) then mabye they are clean ish.

Lukie

04-20-2006, 10:09 PM

#14 (permalink)

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havn't read the thread...

first hand: including stack sizes, reads, stats, etc. would really help. I think as a standard play, this is pretty bad. If you are playing against a real nit and you are playing tight, solid poker, good check/fold.

second hand: preflop call is hopeless.. what exactly are you looking to hit here? (fold preflop)

fold flop.. not worth it here chasing your 3 outer...
why we are chasing the flop here and folding the turn is beyond me, easy call. And the check/min raise just looks goofy, I thought I'd point that out

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