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2 Hands: Help me c/r rivers and folding 2p

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minSim

06-25-2008, 10:53 AM Post subject: 2 Hands: Help me c/r rivers and folding 2p

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

------------------
HAND #1
------------------
Villain is completely unknown.
I sometimes raise preflop, probably check more often. It keeps a lot of hands I dominate in, and I'm willing to bet at flops I miss. If it's a substantial mistake not raising this please comment on it...but I think postflop is more important.
Tbh I really have very little understanding of when to c/r rivers instead betting them. Is this a good spot to c/r?...why is it better then betting? (or vice versa)

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $51.25
UTG: $94.50
MP: $28.25
CO: $21.90
BTN: $58.55
SB: $54.30

Pre-Flop: J

dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.25) 6

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2, BTN calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.25) 7

(2 Players)
Hero bets $4, BTN calls $4

River: ($13.25) Q

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $8, Hero raises to $24

------------------
HAND #2
------------------
Villain was playing 23/11/6.3 over 122 hands. I only had one note on him saying he folded to a donk bet raise once before on a paired board, not really relevant.
Fwiw the players on my left weren't calling anything preflop, hence the preflop raise.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $48.55
BB: $69.30
Hero (UTG): $79.25
CO: $121.30
BTN: $49.25

Pre-Flop: 9

dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($6) 9

(3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $5, SB folds, BB raises to $11, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($28) 8

(2 Players)
BB bets $17.50, Hero folds

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bode

06-25-2008, 12:34 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 1 i like because a Q and worse flushes are obv looking you up alot. if the board blanks or pairs another card i just fire out again and expect a Q or worse flush to look us up enough.

hand 2 i dont know if i like the call on the flop, even in position. His range consists of him flopping the joint with 68, sets and worse 2 pairs with maybe a pair+ straight draw thrown in there. I guess calling here is correct, but it puts us to a decision on the turn wehre he is following through alot. i guess the board isnt really drawy enough, but villain being as aggro as he is makes me want to 3bet the flop. idk, maybe thats really bad.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

freechus9

06-25-2008, 03:13 PM

#3 (permalink)

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1 - Pot the turn. I hate c/r the river because if villain just got boated we're losing our stack. I'm more inclined to bet/call/fold to a shove, though folding ever might be w.t. If this river was 9s instead, then I'd be more inclined to c/r since we'll induce so many bluffs/valuebets from Ks, Ts, str8s, etc.

2 - I don't mind calling down for value. Overpairs do this a lot, as does A9, shit like that. Judging by the small flop raise I think villain puts us on air. I let him keep firing all the way down. Turn card is gooey, but I think the fold is correct, though I can't imagine any 6 calling the flop save 86. This is where reads come in mega handy.

My sig is too much for you to handle.

griffey24

06-25-2008, 04:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hand 1
-I think boards where villain is very likely to bet are good spots to c/r
-I think on this board too many draws came in (straights and flushes) that it might even be too scary for a Q to bet here
-A dry board like 24Q7Q where you have been barrelling with a set of 4's or 2's or something is the perfect spot to river c/r. Since you essentially have the nuts, villain will almost always bet his trips, AND villain will have a hard time folding his trips if the board is dry. Depends a lot on what you put people on.. obviously a c/r is only good there if you think he'd call down with top pair and not some middle pair that he'd check through but maybe call a bet with.

Hand 2
-Villain seems pretty aggro 6 AF. If he's capable of c/r combo draws 98, 76 etc or with overpairs like TT-QQ or something, then I'd probably just 3-bet it here hard on flop

minSim

06-26-2008, 07:31 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

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Posts: 1,512

Quote:

Originally Posted by freechus9

I'm not really worried about losing my stack. I'm gonna b/c the river anyways because an unknown villain at these stakes raises often enough with worse hands then me, imo.

Imo, what's more important is how often villain will call my c/r with worse. Worse flushes will often, and AQ at least sometimes I expect...worse Q's I'm not sure.
Tbh I think I'm better of potting this river instead because it lets me control the betsize and villain bet/folding half-pot with Qx is me losing value too often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Thanks, good points.
I remember Sauce commenting once in the HS forum that river c/r's are generally best when the turn checks through. Not sure if he meant both for value and as a bluff, I think he did. It kind of relates to your points. Jeez, this is gonna get me so much money at my stakes if I'm getting good at it.

EzDuzIt

06-26-2008, 09:23 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Green Bay

Posts: 915

hand 1: raise pre hes gonna call with the hands you dominate anyways, bet out the flop yourself, river c/r is good.

hand 2: if it was 100bb stacks i would just 3bet get it in on flop, but since youre 140bb deep i think your play is fine.

ATOTHEC101

06-26-2008, 10:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,248

In hand 1 villain hardly ever has a boat as he 4 bets flop with sets and 2 pairs and he folds 88 to the flop raise plus q7 simply isnt likely. So im really not worried of ever being beat here and am simply trying to get max value. With your line i think we manage that as hes betting river with all his flushs plus alot of his trip q hands. Though id definitely raise preflop and as played would lead flop rather than checkraise.

Hand 2 isnt great in my opinion. you raised pre so he certainly doesnt put you on top 2 here, plus hes very agro and this flop really doesnt look like it hits your raising range and he could simply be testing the waters with his little pussy raise as well as trying to semi bluff you off an overpair etc. id just repop to 30ish and call a shove, though maybe thats stacking off to light. I just feel that flatting with top two in this spot is majorly weak.

noble007

06-26-2008, 01:14 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

Hand 1 - Just me, dont know if its better but I definitely raise pre-flop, bet flop, bet turn & I usually bet call river.

Hand 2 I 4bet flop

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Galapogos

06-26-2008, 03:58 PM Post subject: Re: 2 Hands: Help me c/r rivers and folding 2p

#9 (permalink)

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Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,323

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

I sometimes raise preflop, probably check more often. It keeps a lot of hands I dominate in, and I'm willing to bet at flops I miss.

Wow, raise pre here everytime. You can take down a raised pot just as much if not more and it's for more money. And if he's dumb enough to open limp the button he's likely calling with everything he has. You wouldn't check AA here would you?

I don't really like the c/r in hand #1. You don't know this guy well enough to expect him to bet the river. All he's down so far in the hand is that he's weak passive. I also lead the flop.

Hand #2: Tough spot, he really shouldn't have any two pair combos on this flop. Sets of 9s and 7s are obviously heavily discounted. He really shouldn't have 68 either so you can discount that as well. I like 3-betting the flop because your hand is somewhat vulnerable but you dominate his draws and possibly overpairs which he could play like this. With his stats he could have TT to maybe as high as QQ here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

minSim

06-26-2008, 06:40 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

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Solid points Galapogos.

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