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2 hands from 25NL session

  
 
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will641
Old 10-20-2007, 02:20 AM     Post subject: 2 hands from 25NL session #1 (permalink)  
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 This hand, I was 99% sure he flopped a set, and not just because of his line, but he said, "I love it when that happens." Obviously referring to getting raised when he spikes a set. If I am pretty sure he has a set, is this just a fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($27.20)
CO ($23.80)
Button ($37.55)
SB ($24.95)
Hero ($27.60)
UTG ($19.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, Q.
2 folds, CO raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 5, 7, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2, Hero raises to $6, CO raises to $18, Hero raises to $26.6, CO calls $4.80 (All-In).

Turn: ($47.70) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($47.70) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $47.70

In this situation, is just calling him down okay, no real reads on him, but i figure just a King is good here a lot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($19.45)
Hero ($41.75)
Button ($16.70)
SB ($13.35)
BB ($31.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($2.85) , , (2 players)
UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.

Turn: ($5.35) (2 players)
UTG bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25.

River: ($9.85) (2 players)

UTG bets 3.75, will641...

Final Pot: $9.85
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kmind
Old 10-20-2007, 02:56 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: I fold this pre. As played, I'd b/c and reevaluate on the turn. I do not like getting it all in on the flop like this.

Hand 2: I raise flop. I probably call those bets down.
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Chopper
Old 10-20-2007, 03:03 AM #3 (permalink)  
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imo,

hand one...what the hell are you stacking off with here for? if you are pretty sure its a set, why not call down and bust him with the flush? you will have implieds to call two streets, i would think...given he pays them off w/ sets. your Q and J are no good against a set here, therefore, are not adding anything to your outs. i can see the flop raise, if you want to be aggressive w/o the nut draw. but, i absolutely cant see raising over him again when he sends this kind of message to you. may just be me, though. i prolly chase this one for cheap (money wise, not odds wise) if i think he set hunts.

hand 2...youve called this far, i dont know why you would fold here to another $4. i cant tell if he would string me along here, too. maybe he would, maybe he wouldnt. those are super pussy bets. i would need evidence that he value bets to drop this on the flop, and the turn bet prolly gets me to take another card. and that river bet? why fold if i was already being a donkey into a monotone flop? i prolly hate myself after this hand, but note him up immediately afterward.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-20-2007, 03:07 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Either get the money all-in on the flop in hand 1 or keep the pot small.

Hand 2 is meh, he's letting you keep the pot small. If he pots/pushes the river it's a fold.
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Chopper
Old 10-20-2007, 05:18 AM #5 (permalink)  
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as proven in another thread, spenda, i can be a complete dumbass.

but, why do we want to get it in on this flop? we cant assume our overs are worth a shit when he raises us. we only have the flush to draw to, and with that aggression, do you want to hang your hat on 9 outs that arent to the nuts?

i'm guessing your answer here is...

we are drawing to a flush with 36% equity and we are left with $12 to call $30. therefore, implieds are prolly there, so if we push we will get what little fold equity we have left, and if he calls, we are really close to having proper odds. and in rare cases our Q and J are actually good? but, we cant wait until the turn because our equity has all but disintegrated by then.

was i even close?

this is an area i need help in, and i think most readers could benefit from my "donkeyness." i never mind throwing myself to the wolves. i think you know that by now.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-20-2007, 05:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 When did he say, "i love it when this happens"? I mean, if anyone chats its usually strength so you can fold to the 3-bet.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-20-2007, 05:41 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
as proven in another thread, spenda, i can be a complete dumbass.

but, why do we want to get it in on this flop? we cant assume our overs are worth a shit when he raises us. we only have the flush to draw to, and with that aggression, do you want to hang your hat on 9 outs that arent to the nuts?

Lol at putting him on a set here all the time. Our Q/J can be good a lot.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-20-2007, 05:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 ehhh i don't really like your flop raise in hand 1, most of the time you get blown off your hand which has some great equity.

Hand 2: I think you played it fines and call river.
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Chopper
Old 10-20-2007, 01:41 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
as proven in another thread, spenda, i can be a complete dumbass.

but, why do we want to get it in on this flop? we cant assume our overs are worth a shit when he raises us. we only have the flush to draw to, and with that aggression, do you want to hang your hat on 9 outs that arent to the nuts?

Lol at putting him on a set here all the time. Our Q/J can be good a lot.
yes, but arent you also worried about a 3bet range? QQ+, AK, or another card that carries your Q or J, like AQs? and, yes, pp's that hit their set, too. i just dont see you hitting your Q and thinking, "allright, i got you now. i raise w/ my J kicker in a 3bet pot."
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 10-20-2007, 02:14 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 1:
2: raise pf is fine, but you're the pf aggressor, yet he's donking into you on such a dangerous board 3 (!) times.
hmmmm...
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bigspenda73
Old 10-20-2007, 03:56 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
as proven in another thread, spenda, i can be a complete dumbass.

but, why do we want to get it in on this flop? we cant assume our overs are worth a shit when he raises us. we only have the flush to draw to, and with that aggression, do you want to hang your hat on 9 outs that arent to the nuts?

Lol at putting him on a set here all the time. Our Q/J can be good a lot.
yes, but arent you also worried about a 3bet range? QQ+, AK, or another card that carries your Q or J, like AQs? and, yes, pp's that hit their set, too. i just dont see you hitting your Q and thinking, "allright, i got you now. i raise w/ my J kicker in a 3bet pot."
You're not thinking correctly IMO. Stove your hand against his flop range Chopper, not against his 3bet range, you're being way too action-oriented here.

Also, I said I'd either try to get it all-in or keep the pot small. There's no reason to c/r the flop, it puts you in shitty turn spots and every bad player I see c/r's flush draws and then doesn't know how to follow them up. If you want to get the money in you need to b/3bet AI. However, I would just c/c the flop. As played, do some math after he 3taps the flop. You'll need about 2:1 to call against his range I'd assume, maybe even like 1.75:1.
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Chopper
Old 10-20-2007, 10:01 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Stove your hand against his flop range Chopper, not against his 3bet range, you're being way too action-oriented here.
i cant even imagine a "flop range." after the 3bet, i'm stuck in my reads, i guess. care to help me find one?

and, yes, i suppose i am too "action-oriented," but do we need to go farther at the 25NL level most times?

i would like to get better, but it seems that leads to FPS.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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