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2 of the easy variaty

  
 
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Irisheyes
Old 08-15-2009, 05:41 PM     Post subject: 2 of the easy variaty #1 (permalink)  
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Opener opens 24% and folds to 70% of 3bets, both blinds are heavy heavy squeezers.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($301.74)
CO ($245.00)
Hero (BTN) ($443.22)
SB ($197.00)
BB ($194.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, CO raises to $7, Hero raises to $21 ...

More interesting maybe:

Villain is a big fish, opens really wide, calls 3bets really wide, dosn't like to fold much postflop.

What if the SB folds and we're in the BB?

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($165.52)
CO ($100.00)
BTN ($115.62)
BB ($60.52)
Hero (SB) ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, BTN raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $13,
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minSim
Old 08-15-2009, 05:58 PM #2 (permalink)  
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yes I 3bet both in these situations
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 08-15-2009, 06:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 the second hand seems like a clear 3bet to me versus the fish since we expect there to be plenty of Ax hands we are dominating that he won't fold if an Ace flops. i don't change my approach if i'm in the BB, since not 3betting misses an opportunity to exploit his station tendencies. with KTo/A9o i'm not sure whether to call/fold/3bet?

i guess a 3bet would be my default play on the QJo hand as well, but it may be close since i would usually fold QTo. i don't think i'd ever flat this hand on the BTN versus TAG types.
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minSim
Old 08-15-2009, 07:06 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
the second hand seems like a clear 3bet to me versus the fish since we expect there to be plenty of Ax hands we are dominating that he won't fold if an Ace flops. i don't change my approach if i'm in the BB, since not 3betting misses an opportunity to exploit his station tendencies. with KTo/A9o i'm not sure whether to call/fold/3bet?

i guess a 3bet would be my default play on the QJo hand as well, but it may be close since i would usually fold QTo. i don't think i'd ever flat this hand on the BTN versus TAG types.
I think against most I'd rather call it than 3bet it IP, especially when ranges are wide.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 08-15-2009, 07:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
the second hand seems like a clear 3bet to me versus the fish since we expect there to be plenty of Ax hands we are dominating that he won't fold if an Ace flops. i don't change my approach if i'm in the BB, since not 3betting misses an opportunity to exploit his station tendencies. with KTo/A9o i'm not sure whether to call/fold/3bet?

i guess a 3bet would be my default play on the QJo hand as well, but it may be close since i would usually fold QTo. i don't think i'd ever flat this hand on the BTN versus TAG types.
I think against most I'd rather call it than 3bet it IP, especially when ranges are wide.

my thinking behind not calling was that when the flop comes Qxx/Jxx the turn/river bets are typically at best neutral EV for us since we are bluff catching/facing AJ/KQ. thoughts?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 08-15-2009, 07:20 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 btw, on the BTN i like to flat Axs hands the most since i can raise cbets on nearly any board and still have close to 20% equity when called.

with QJo the best boards to raise would be 8xx/9xx/Txx. these boards do hit our percieved range well too which should increase our fold equity. i think i stand corrected.
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Marshall28
Old 08-15-2009, 09:15 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Both of these are clear 3bets in my mind. You can't flat the QJo if the blinds are heavy squeezers. I'd 3bet it anyways since we know how to play postflop. If someone didn't know how to play postflop, I can see 3betting becoming a trouble spot and would recommend folding.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-15-2009, 09:43 PM #8 (permalink)  
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hmmm ok.

I agree with everyone that the first hand is a pretty clear 3bet so I guess we can ignore that one.

Number two I go back and forth on a bit and I can't decide on the correct line.

I feel like most of the time I 3bet and get called, then half the flops that flop I give up because I know he's never folding, the other half of flops I cbet and he calls anyway and I find myself on the turn with no defined plan for how to win the pot and 1/3 my stack is already in the middle.

The argument is that all this -EVness will be made up for when we 3bet him and flop a dominating pair but that only happens something like 1 in 8 times we have him dominated. The other point is that we get him to put money in bad preflop but if we cant win the pot postflop ever then we never get to realise our equity advantage.

idk maybe I'm overthinking this spot.
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