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2 draws where I have the choice between raising or calling

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minSim

03-25-2009, 09:58 PM Post subject: 2 draws where I have the choice between raising or calling

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

hand 1
Villain 40/10/1.0 over only 10 hands.
My main question is if you like a raise or a call on the flop and why.
Bonus Q: would you ever call the turn? If so, what's your river plan?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($31.95)
Hero ($61.75)
UTG ($30)
UTG+1 ($55.30)
CO ($50)
BTN ($57.30)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $2, Hero calls $1.50,

FLOP ($4) 3

SB bets $2, Hero calls $2,

TURN ($8) 3

SB bets $5.50, Hero folds,

hand 2
Villain unknown, he's only at the table for a few hands.
Call or raise turn?
(reasoning behind the flop call is that I think a lot of people at my stakes are 1 barrel players, so I think it's a profitable float with my overs)

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
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SB ($30.45)
BB ($50)
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UTG+1 ($40.40)
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BTN ($50)

Dealt to Hero K

fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, fold, fold, fold,

FLOP ($3.75) J

UTG+1 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50,

TURN ($6.75) J

UTG+1 bets $1.50, Hero ??

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b-rabbit

03-26-2009, 12:12 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: virginia

Posts: 207

b-rabbit is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 1:
honestly i think calling behind on this flop is the weakest move...i like
fold>=raise>call
if you raise here you can either take down the pot, fold to a reraise, or be in the driver's seat if he calls behind...if played this way and he leads the turn i fold, but if he checks i double barrel...
or you can just eat 4bb and forget about it with a fold

hand 2
i probably float the turn too and hope the river is a fun card...but thats kind of passive

do the right thing.

griffey24

03-26-2009, 12:27 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hand 1 - is fine

Hand 2 - I probably raise this turn. T is a credible card to rep two pair/TTT and his sizing is pretty weak and seems like nonsense to me. He's probably pricing himself to a cheap draw with AK/AQ or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

bjsaust

03-26-2009, 01:13 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Hmm, hand 1 I'd have been more tempted to raise just because our draw is so unlikely to hit?

Just playing to improve.

griffey24

03-26-2009, 01:39 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Hmm, hand 1 I'd have been more tempted to raise just because our draw is so unlikely to hit?

But a raise on this board reps nothing credible, while a float on this board reps tons of hands including lots of top pairs....

If he's the type that will shutdown on turns then I'd prefer a call in hand 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

kmind

03-26-2009, 02:08 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

IMO raising in hand 1 reps something totally different to a fish than a reg. so I think we can rep like a K or some weird shit by raising and from experience they don't care what you have anyways they just see them hitting nothing and fold to aggression.
But griff beat me to it. If he's shutting down a lot on turns then call.

b-rabbit

03-26-2009, 02:57 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: virginia

Posts: 207

so if he shuts down on the turn in hand 1, is our move always bet ~5.50 or so???

do the right thing.

kmind

03-26-2009, 06:45 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-rabbit

so if he shuts down on the turn in hand 1, is our move always bet ~5.50 or so???

Yeah. I am basically calling here BECAUSE he'll always check back when weak. I mean maybe some turn cards will change things but in most cases, yes.

surviva316

03-26-2009, 07:26 PM

#9 (permalink)

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surviva316 will become famous soon enough

hand one i'm folding to the flop bet and definitely to the turn bet.

hand two might as well complete your float play. the fact that you picked up an OESD should only reinforce the +EV nature of a bluff here not make you reconsider it

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

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bode

03-26-2009, 07:50 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 2 im probably raising any 2 cards i get to the turn with after his bet size.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Genitruc

03-26-2009, 09:41 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

i think calling flop and turn in both spots is a good way to make money

if we were oop it d be different

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

b-rabbit

03-26-2009, 10:42 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: virginia

Posts: 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

i think calling flop and turn in both spots is a good way to make money

if we were oop it d be different

and then fold to a river bet when we miss??

do the right thing.

Genitruc

03-27-2009, 04:24 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-rabbit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

i think calling flop and turn in both spots is a good way to make money

if we were oop it d be different

and then fold to a river bet when we miss??

depends if villain bets

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

minSim

03-27-2009, 08:27 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

i think calling flop and turn in both spots is a good way to make money

if we were oop it d be different

I'm interested in why you think a turn call is profitable in hand 1

Genitruc

03-27-2009, 03:17 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

-he s splashy over the small sample and can be barrelling and will give up on the riv on lots of scary cards
-he can have a monster and we ll get paid when we hit
-take this with a grain of salt since i misread this hand from the beginning of the thread, thinking we had picked up a dbl gutter on the turn

with the bare gutter folding is obv good and standard

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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2 draws where I have the choice between raising or calling

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