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Irisheyes
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02-08-2008, 08:00 AM
Post subject: 2 continuation bets?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Hand 1)
200NL 100bb stax 6 handed. I open K 9 in the CO to $7. Button and SB fold and a 38/12/1.8 station fish calls from the BB.
Flop ($14): 2 52
Villain check, Hero?
Hand 2)
200NL 100bb stacks 6 handed. I open with 99 in the SB to $8. Tricky TAGG calls from the BB.
Flop ($15): AT2
Hero?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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The first hand depends a lot on the fishs call cbet %. I see a lot of fish folding these flops so I would go ahead and bet it.
Hand 2 I would also most likely bet. If you check you are giving up on the hand.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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1) How bad of a station is the fish? If he's calling 100% here
I have a hard time wanting to bet. Mostly because your only plan on the turn is bet again, and you have no idea if it's spew.
The fundamental theory to crushing a station is to get a good hand and just keep on betting. This hand is marginal at best at this point.
It's entirely possible that my thought process is due to results oriented thinking though. Because I often forget that stations have ZERO FE and try to factor FE into my equations. Then they catch one of their two cards and turn over their hand like it's the nuts. While I muck my overs.
2. I admidt that I'm out of my league on this one.. my standard play would be c-bet pot sizedbet fold to any later aggression...
So instead I offer this argument Tricky or not, I think a bet is manditory here. What isn't manditory is the size. What's wrong with an overbet? Tricky TAGG will raise any small bet, and possibly try to float any sort of a potsized bet to the turn where he'll try to knock you off the hand. Why not try to blow him off his weak ace and really define his big hands. if you overbet... like 20 into the 15 his only options are re-raise or fold. Only a strong ace or better re-raises.
edit....FMP
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I like the hands Irish, I'm not sure on these either.
Hand 1 I usually bet because we're IP, have outs when called and sometimes even get called with worse by bad players. Bad players don't often c/r flops, if good players do at these flops I don't know tbh.
Hand 2 is harder, mostly because we're OOP and it's BvB.
I probably c/c flop and c/f any later streets without improving. That's very weak, but I don't really see a better way to play it.
A reason to bet can be protection, but I'm not sure how that weights against betting into better hands.
Having something like 66 makes it even harder imo.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
The first hand depends a lot on the fishs call cbet %. I see a lot of fish folding these flops so I would go ahead and bet it.
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His call cbet % is going to be highish. No idea what it is though.
Ya but what types of hands are they folding?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
Hand 2 I would also most likely bet. If you check you are giving up on the hand.
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It's possible that if we bet we are putting more money in and then still giving up on the hand.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
The first hand depends a lot on the fishs call cbet %. I see a lot of fish folding these flops so I would go ahead and bet it.
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His call cbet % is going to be highish. No idea what it is though.
Ya but what types of hands are they folding?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
Hand 2 I would also most likely bet. If you check you are giving up on the hand.
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It's possible that if we bet we are putting more money in and then still giving up on the hand. |
After thinking a little more I do like your assesment in hand 1. The fish knows we do not have a 2 or 5 after raising and is most likely going to be calling any bet here. Your flop c-bet could be for value but it would be very thin. Is this fish station ever making any moves? If he is not I still do not mind a c-bet.
In hand 2 it is a likely chance we will get blown off the hand after we bet the flop. Whats your image in his eyes? Have you been playing straightforward or tricky yourself? If its straight forward then checking is pretty much giving up. By your response you seem you do not think this hand is strong enough to make a bet on this board. If thats the case I think you have to find another table because having this guy on your left will be devestating. I think this board hit your range pretty hard so I would go ahead and bet the flop.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Hand 1 - I don't think we're ever getting a fold from this kind of opponent on this board. That being said, we might be ahead, and I wouldn't mind getting to SD. I likely check flop, call all turns or bet turn if he checks and its a good scare card.
Hand 2 - blind vs blind I bet this always, and probably double barrel since I don't put him on that strong of an A given PF. In this kind of spot I guess I'm turning my hand into a bluff, but I think we can take him off a lot of better hands with continued aggression based on PF.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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1) i check behind almost every time.
2) bet.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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1. you can check i dont think betting is bad as long as he will fold sometimes or fold later on if you fire more barrels when higher cards come.
2. bet.
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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1 - bet, if you're behind you've almost always got 6 outs anyway and if he calls there are going to be loads of cards you can double barrel that will scare him into folding or value bet.
2 - bet, you are almost never going to win a big pot if he is holding worse so C/C ir fairly poor - you might win 1 bet if he decides to bluff but it's really difficult to play when you check here - most tricky TAGG's will bet and then calling seems so bad for so many reasons. By betting here I know you're turning your hand into a bluff but you're not going to win a big pot in that situation anyway
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Hand 1 - If you're not planning on firing a lot of turns, don't bet.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Hand 1 - If you're not planning on firing a lot of turns, don't bet.
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i still dont think its profitable to double barrel. this guy is probably calling at least 2 streets with any pp, 5 or A high.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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1- doesnt matter much
2- definitely bet
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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good post
hand 1 seems a lot less marginal to me because you can pretty profitably 2-barrel 15 cards on the turn. only reason i see for not c-betting is if the fish is prone to bluff minraising and the likes
hand 2 is a shitty spot cuz a good player is gonna own you really hard. the only advice I can give is that if you want to win the pot you have to really forget that you have 3rd pair to the board and just play like you have Ax. Something like bet flop, CC turn and lead riv for 1/2 - 2/3 pot. I say this cuz otherwise you'll get owned way too much by gutters, Tx checking behind riv (when it'd usually fold to a "fake" value-bet) and also because there aren't many Ax hands in tagg's cold-calling ranges BVB.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Hand 1 - If you're not planning on firing a lot of turns, don't bet.
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i still dont think its profitable to double barrel. this guy is probably calling at least 2 streets with any pp, 5 or A high. |
then triple barrel? duh...
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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as a precursor to my advice .. .i play like a 37/33 - 28/22 game so like, i c-bet constantly, like 85% maybe more i think so it may not pertain to you, but regardless, this is how i would approach the hands ....
in the first hand you actually have like ... a backdoor flush draw, and two overcards, and what's most likely the best hand anyways. you should be thrilled to see this board against an idiot station. bet bet bet.
in the 2nd hand, its like, yeah, if you bet and are called you're probably never ahead, but if you check you are pretty much giving up on the hand and are forced to surrender to villain if he does as much as make a call on this flop. --- on the flip side, dry A high boards are very good to c-bet. VERY GOOD. But then on the flip side of that, also very good to checkraise as a bluff ... so if he's tricky u might wanna c-bet/call raise or do somethin funky to level him.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
as a precursor to my advice .. .i play like a 37/33 - 28/22 game so like
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didnt you post your results not that long ago on 2p2 running like 25/21? and then they called you out on not having these really laggy stats that you say?
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