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2 AQ hands in 3-bet pots

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zook

06-28-2007, 05:07 PM Post subject: 2 AQ hands in 3-bet pots

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

1. Villain is 20/12/2.5 and seems decent, but plays passively post-flop against me. It's worked for him b/c I haven't gotten cards. He's called me down with TP medium kicker a couple of times and caught me bluffing 3 barrels. I know he 3-bets me light, he squeezed me from the BB once with K8s and got it AI on the flop with a flush draw.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $610.60
UTG+1: $192
Hero: $497.10
SB: $396
BB: $226.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A

2 folds, Hero raises to $16, SB raises to $48, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 6

($102, 3 players)
SB bets $65, Hero calls.

Turn: K

($232, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 6

($232, 3 players)
SB is all-in $283, Hero...

2. In this one, villain is 15/11/2, and has 3-bet a few times at this table. Only time I played back, I 4-bet with JJ, he shoved, I called and lost to KK. I'm down over two buyins at this table thanks to that and a bad hero call, so he probably thinks I'm a fish.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 6 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $608.40
UTG+1: $651
CO: $399.10
Hero: $388
SB: $899
BB: $400

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with Q

3 folds, Hero raises to $16, SB raises to $52, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: A

($108, 2 players)
SB bets $80, Hero...

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noble007

06-28-2007, 05:31 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

Always seems to be tricky calling a 3 bet with AQ.

Hand 1..
I go with your read that he plays passively post flop vs, you and fold.
(Elephant - if he's betting his hand vs you he probably has it.
Seems more like he checked turn to you expecting you to be aggressive and bet as you probably have at least A to call flop, river he hopes he can still get call out of an ace, if you have a busted draw you're folding to a value bet anyway so why not push.)

Hand 2.. (Ok my advice is probably bad.)
Well if you're willing to call a 3bet I dont think you can fold on this flop, & if he thinks I'm a fish well then I push.
They can call with worse thinking I'm steaming from being down or on a flush draw.)

overflow

06-28-2007, 06:33 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

I think I would've played Hand 2 differently than Noble:

Preflop effective stacks $388.
On the flop effective stack: $336
Pot on heros turn to act: $188
Hero over shoves for $256 into a $268 pot, leaving villian to call $256 to win $524.

He's getting the right price for a flush draw and will call you every time if that's what he's got. Wouldn't call, and shove a non-spade turn be a better play? You're forcing any draw to take much worse odds if you can get it in on the turn. The only way I shove here is putting him on some kind of pair hand without spades, AKo maybe. I doubt he leads this flop with JJ. AKs,AKo,KK, are probably the likely candidates. If he's got AsKs you're definitely not pricing him out with a shove. Vs. KK you probably win the pot with a flop shove. Same vs. AKo unless villian is a donkey. I'm guessing you're beating probably 70-80% of his likely range, but I don't see much in his range that he's unprofitably calling a shove with.

Edit:
I just looked at the HH again, since Hero has As in this hand it changes the situation a little bit. I think this is even a stronger argument for calling and getting it in on the turn. If the spade hits and he was on a flush draw, he's putting his money in, and at least you'll likely have 11 winning outs if he's got a flush, and 13 winning outs if he has the unlikely 77.

IMHO, pricing in a flush draw by shoving the flop seems like a mistake, and you can't effectively reraise him on the flop without shoving. I think you give a pair the chance to hit a 2 or 3 outter to take the lead by flat calling the flop in order to destroy his odds on the turn. If you're already behind he's instacalling the flop anyways. And since he's likely to be profitably calling with all the calling hands you beat on the flop, make him take worse odds.

swiggidy

06-28-2007, 06:48 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by overflow

leaving villian to call $256 to win $524.

He's getting the right price for a flush draw

no he's not

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

overflow

06-28-2007, 06:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by overflow

leaving villian to call $256 to win $524.

He's getting the right price for a flush draw

no he's not

2.04:1 vs. 2.2:1; touche.

zook

06-28-2007, 06:56 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Almost impossible to put him on a flush draw since I have the As. KsJs/JsTs/Ts9s are unlikely enough that I almost completely discount them. This hand is about maximizing value from AK/AJ imo.

overflow

06-28-2007, 06:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

If that's the case, isn't the play to min-reraise (ala I have KK and hope you don't have the A!) and hope he shoves with something stupid like AK?

I doubt AK naked calls the AI, in which case if that's what villian is holding we should be trying to get him to do the work for us.

overflow

06-28-2007, 07:05 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

In a 3bet pot preflop, aren't you only reraise-shoving with AQ,AA, AsKs, and QQ? There's no way any sanely intelligent villian would be able to call with anything you beat, your only likely hand a naked pair of Aces is beating is KK, and I don't think you'd overshove KK in this spot. Which means he knows he's drawing to 3 outs at best.

If this is the case, then wouldn't the best play be to do exactly what KK would do in this spot and flatcall?

You rep one of the two likely hands you could have that he's beating and stack him on the turn when his lead bet pot commits him.

swiggidy

06-28-2007, 07:08 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by overflow

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by overflow

leaving villian to call $256 to win $524.

He's getting the right price for a flush draw

no he's not

2.04:1 vs. 2.2:1; touche.

If the pot odds are lower than the odds of filling up then it's incorrect to call.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

mcatdog

06-28-2007, 07:21 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by overflow

In a 3bet pot preflop, aren't you only reraise-shoving with AQ,AA, AsKs, and QQ? There's no way any sanely intelligent villian would be able to call with anything you beat.

If people are folding AK here then I'd definitely shove the flop with anything that has outs (even a gutshot). It'd probably be profitable to shove the flop with any two cads but I'm not 100% sure.

griffey24

06-28-2007, 07:26 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

hand 1 - I don't think you can call this. You're calling for at best a split here I'd imagine, unless you think he's on a full out bluff.

hand 2 - I think If villain is aggro, and would fire again on the turn with an A, then I might flat call and push over on the turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Genitruc

06-28-2007, 07:39 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 1 : I like villain's bet no matter what he has. I think you should call this some of the time (sry but I think it's impossible for it to be clear cut)

hand 2 : I like calling a little more than shoving but it's close. Your hand is just soo strong and I think raising looks much too strong on this board.

Shoving will get called light because of the flop texture if villain is strong and calling will often induce a 2-barrel because of your fishy image (i.e. you're bad enough to be chasing a draw in a big pot).

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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2 AQ hands in 3-bet pots

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