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Deanglow
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05-03-2008, 08:16 PM
Post subject: 2/4 River checkraisin'
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Guy is 24/18 and decent. Preflop I certainly vary. I'm TAG
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($158)
CO ($125.10)
Button ($659.90)
SB ($396)
Hero ($462.20)
UTG ($718.10)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 4 , 4 .
3 folds, Button raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $10.
Flop: ($30) 2, 9 , 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.
Turn: ($30) J (2 players)
Hero bets $20, Button calls $20.
River: ($70) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $44, Hero raises to $163
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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I like this one.
If he wants a call (with a T or flush) he either bets 1/2 pot or near full pot.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Jimmy, his range here is usually going to be Tx/air so your rationale for liking this play is illogical. I don't think he's going to fold a ten unless he thinks youre a huge nit so I don't like it.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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I think a better and more fun line is betting 20 again to induce a raise from that range, and then 3betting huge. You are bound to get more credit/most tags feel horribly owned in that spot.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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i agree with what nutsinho has said so far.
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c-luvin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 159
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whether i like it or not depends on if you think this bet is intended to make him fold a 10 or if you think he has air/pairs alot and this bet will force him to fold
also, nutsinho's line is baller because he has to fold air AND a 10.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think this is bad but overshoving all in is $$$$$
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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i like a flop lead on this flop about 100% of the time that you call preflop.
also as a generality, i find that river check raises that aren't ALL-IN get very little credit.
also i find thata river check raises where you have a very VERY wide range (i.e. any two cards on this river), don't get any credit either.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i like a flop lead on this flop about 100% of the time that you call preflop.
also as a generality, i find that river check raises that aren't ALL-IN get very little credit.
also i find thata river check raises where you have a very VERY wide range (i.e. any two cards on this river), don't get any credit either.
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Yeah I'm starting to understand this now. I thought that river checkraises that were kind of small looked more strong, but I was wrong.
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
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Jimmy, his range here is usually going to be Tx/air so your rationale for liking this play is illogical. I don't think he's going to fold a ten unless he thinks youre a huge nit so I don't like it.
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Yup your are right!
Maybe it's just me, but I find his river bet funny (i.e. not value bet)
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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i like a minbet better for nutsinho's line. We're going to lose a lot when he just calls us with mid pair if we bet 20.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i like a flop lead on this flop about 100% of the time that you call preflop.
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Do you take this line with any other hand as well?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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overcards overpairs sets, twopair, draws.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
overcards overpairs sets, twopair, draws.
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Some I get, some I don't get.
1. The underpairs, middelpairs, overcards I think I get;
Primarily you don't want to get drawn out by a checking villain with a draw (incl overcards).
Secondly as villain won't bluff raise this flop often, you can easily lay down your hand when you're raised.
2. That second argument (I assume) is also why you're doing it with a draw, combined with just lots of FE.
Follow up question; what's our turn plan when we're leading i.e. JsTs on the flop and the turn bricks?
3. The sets, 2 pairs, overpairs I don't really get;
To me it seems like villains range is so weak, that a lead with these looses a of c/r value. Also, the hands that are going to raise our lead, mostly c-bet and follow up on our c/r anyway.
How often do you expect a villain with a 8+ draw to check behind the flop?
(mine rarely, but they usually very bad)
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