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bspahn
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07-05-2010, 11:32 PM
Post subject: 2/4 JJ 4ways
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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i called here hoping someone behind me would squeeze light since there were 3 people behind me with 11% + 3bet
how do I figure out what's best on this flop once opener checks to me? there's quite a lot of turn cards I won't like and it's 4ways and i'm oop so I decided to bet to protect.
on this turn would you bet/call ??
i'm new to 2/4 and am NOT at all used to overbets... what can I do on this river? i can't see gotigers checking TT or 9T on this flop... so what Tx can he have?
$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG mko1106 ($1,303.80)
UTG+1 gotigers2008 ($939.40)
CO Hero ($422)
BTN Sandahfs ($638.70)
SB x shd ($400)
BB CoffeeGrinder06 ($450)
Pre-Flop: ($6, 6 players) Hero is CO  
1 fold, gotigers2008 raises to $14, Hero calls $14, Sandahfs calls $14, 1 fold, CoffeeGrinder06 calls $10
Flop:    ($58, 4 players)
CoffeeGrinder06 checks, gotigers2008 checks, Hero bets $42, Sandahfs calls $42, CoffeeGrinder06 folds, gotigers2008 calls $42
Turn:  ($184, 3 players)
gotigers2008 checks, Hero checks, Sandahfs checks
River:  ($184, 3 players)
gotigers2008 bets $244
Final Pot: $428
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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bet turn, fold river
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I don't really get these hands you have posted right now and your turn "pot controlling" that you're doing.
Turn changes nothing from the flop other than 89/99 beating you now. No harm in b/f turn. 9T is calling all day, and you block the nuts. There are also two FD's and all combo draws will call again.
River I would fold, there's no reason that one of you can't have Tx.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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That's weird. I'd probably pay him off out of curiosity.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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during the hand i THOUGHT about betting 120 ish - this puts close to half my stack in there - are you still bet/folding though or do you think enough combo draws get it in here ... or shall i assume because its 3ways my opponents will play generally straightforward?
--> reason for 'weird' pot controling in these two spots? i'm a pussy and playing scared money at 2/4 and shouldn't have even tried with only a 15k BR ... so i'm gonna stop
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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15k is plenty to take a shot. Just move down when you lose x buy-ins.
(x = whatever you are comfortable losing.)
There is also nothing wrong with playing a few tables of 2/4 and a few of 1/2 until you are comfortable with the higher stake.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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fold river for sure
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspahn
i'm a pussy and playing scared money at 2/4 and shouldn't have even tried with only a 15k BR ... so i'm gonna stop
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am I missing something.... or isn't this almost 40 buyins??
I'd say thats well enough. Agree with JL.. just drop down when you feel like you need it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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losing my confidence instantly when trying to play 2/4 isnt worth trying to stick to it. i like the plan of a couple 2/4 tables and the rest 1/2 though.
i suppose another big part is not willing to get my stack in for a lot of spots. basically i went from playing 20/17 at 1/2 to playing 15/12 at 2/4 and folding AK all the time preflop to action (say i 3bet and someone cold 4bets, or i 3bet against UTG with AK and they 4bet)
i think i give way too much credit to peoples ranges and bets because ive played SO much at 1/2 and disregard the fact that 2/4 is probably by far the most hyper-aggressive level on the internet.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspahn
or i 3bet against UTG with AK and they 4bet
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I feel like people are 4bet bluffing from UTG more often than they will be calling OOP to a 3bet. Given that assumption, I think 3bet folding AK is even worse.
Just flat if you don't know what to do to a 4bet.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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caddie444
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: constantly UTG
Posts: 723
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Def bet turn and fold river
@ everyone except P4's:
What's the play if villain bets $100ish on the river?
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Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
I feel like people are 4bet bluffing from UTG more often than they will be calling OOP to a 3bet. Given that assumption, I think 3bet folding AK is even worse.
Just flat if you don't know what to do to a 4bet.
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-> he had position against me, i believe i squeezed AK against his UTG raise and a middle caller. I agree if i'm gonna fold i shouldn't ever 3bet in that spot.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caddie444
Def bet turn and fold river
@ everyone except P4's:
What's the play if villain bets $100ish on the river?
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also nobody has discussed anything about turn sizing... what would you bet IF the board was LESS drawy, and what would you bet on THIS particular board? is $120 ie 2/3 pot sufficient, it would seem strong to me if i was one of the other 2 players
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I'd probably bet $140ish. Combo's will call and I don't wanna get bluffed off here, cause I'm b/f.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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so once I've bet 140 here i've put about half my stack in, so because of that it would seem that they're generally not going to be doing anything too crazy in terms of bluffing here or even semibluffing because it seems like there's very little FE on their part right?
Is this one of the only cases where we'd put in half our stack and still fold to a shove? It seems very often from what I've seen that once we have a very significant part of our stack in the middle folding should become less and less of an option - especially HU.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I don't think this is a pot odds question, this is a ranges question.
If you bet $90 on the turn. You have super bad pot odds if he shoves, but I'd rather call a shove after I had bet $90 than after I had bet $140.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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caddie444
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: constantly UTG
Posts: 723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
I don't think this is a pot odds question, this is a ranges question.
If you bet $90 on the turn. You have super bad pot odds if he shoves, but I'd rather call a shove after I had bet $90 than after I had bet $140.
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Why b/c he has more semi-bluff-shoves in his range due to his perceived greater FE ?
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Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caddie444
Why b/c he has more semi-bluff-shoves in his range due to his perceived greater FE ?
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Yah granted in this case I'm probably not calling a shove after I bet either amount. But in general, there are lots of spots where you know you will bet call if you bet $32 into $40 or something for example. But it might be better to just b/c $15, so that his shoving range is wider.
In that case, pot odds is irrelevant. You were going to b/c after you bet $32, so betting $15 pretty much only serves as inducing more crap into his shoving range. It would be pretty dumb in such a spot to say "I'll bet/call $32 cause the pot odds is right, but I have to b/f $15 cause I'm not getting the pot odds now"
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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