|
zook
|
06-17-2007, 01:40 AM
Post subject: 2/4 - AKo in BB deep - two-part question
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
UTG seems like a good lagg, but I haven't played much against him (28/23/3.7 over a large sample). CO is a bad loose passive (42/2/0.5 over 100 hands). Button is a solid regular (20/15/4 over a ton of hands) I've played with a lot. SB is bad and loose (50/10/3 over 200 hands).
My image shouldn't be too bad, but I've playing my usual aggressive game, running ~28/20 and raising to isolate CO and SB a lot.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 6 players - Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $481.60
UTG+1: $443
CO: $722.20
Button: $1063.40
SB: $161.85
Hero: $859.10
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A  K 
UTG raises to $14, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero...
Another part to come.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
i nominate this for most screwed up hand/situation ever. we got 3 guys in the hand that are 200BB, everyone's coming for a ride and we got AKo....boooo, and 2 of them are good players (why are you at this table anyways?)
damn, dunno....by calling, even if i flop a A or K i'm not too happy about it. with 3 CCers the probability of getting toasted by a set increases. we're not suited so we don't have a potential flush backup.
i vote for 3bet hard and fold to a push.
|
|
|
|
zook
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
(why are you at this table anyways?)
|
CO & SB are buddylist horrible and SB had over 200bb when I sat down. UTG only sat down an orbit or two ago.
This is actually a great table for 2/4 at FT. There are good regulars everywhere and fish are few and far between.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
i nominate this for most screwed up hand/situation ever.
|
Just wait 
|
|
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
Raise 80?
|
|
|
|
sauce123
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
|
|
ummm raise y r u even asking this?
|
|
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
|
|
zook
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A K
UTG raises to $14, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises to $80, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.
Flop: A J 4  ($400, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero...
|
|
|
|
I Like Pie
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
|
|
Damn that's a lot of callers, this is pretty sick.
But you gotta like the flop I guess. Not very likey someone has JJ, maybe UTG and I guess anyone could have 44.
I think you gotta fire here, I'd bet $250.
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
wow...this is horrible.
i'm gonna lump all of the villains as one. their hand ranges are...
most likly: JJ, AK, AQ
less likely: AJ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ (i think those big pairs would not play like they did preflop, likewise AJ/KQ are too weak to continue after your 3bet)
in for kicks: 22-TT (set value...right? right???)
i'm worried about JJ here, i think any player preflop given their action can sanely have JJ.
i'm actually going to check this flop and see what the other guys do. it's a scary flop for any underpair against 3 guys.
|
|
|
|
sauce123
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
|
|
ok- so if u bet u stack any ace i donno maybe one of the really shitty players will give u action with Jx or QQ or a gutty or somethin equally ugly, and needless to say u get stacked by sets AJ
if u check u give free cards which really really suck when pot is this big and so many players so probably lead for 200 call shove is my line here as ur hand is not super well defined and a C/R is so ugly here.
|
|
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
ok- so if u bet u stack any ace i donno maybe one of the really shitty players will give u action with Jx or QQ or a gutty or somethin equally ugly, and needless to say u get stacked by sets AJ
if u check u give free cards which really really suck when pot is this big and so many players so probably lead for 200 call shove is my line here as ur hand is not super well defined and a C/R is so ugly here.
|
maybe it's more aggressive at higher limits, but i don't logically see anyone taking a stab at this pot with less than AK. if you're betting, it seems like it's only pushed over by better hands, so why are you calling?
|
|
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
ok- so if u bet u stack any ace i donno maybe one of the really shitty players will give u action with Jx or QQ or a gutty or somethin equally ugly, and needless to say u get stacked by sets AJ
if u check u give free cards which really really suck when pot is this big and so many players so probably lead for 200 call shove is my line here as ur hand is not super well defined and a C/R is so ugly here.
|
maybe it's more aggressive at higher limits, but i don't logically see anyone taking a stab at this pot with less than AK. if you're betting, it seems like it's only pushed over by better hands, so why are you calling? |
I agree, besides AQ maybe, I don't see anything we beat shoving, I would bet/fold.
|
|
|
|
MuddyWicket
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
|
|
if you fold this to a push after betting then the only hand you can call with is AA as you also fold KK, and you probably wouldn't raise preflop like this with AJ.
surely this would be seriously exploitable?
|
|
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
Good point MuddyWicket. For me that's some heavy next level thinking though, but I'm far from playing these levels anyway.
At first I was thinking;
Besides AQ, what hands we beat could push this flop? You really think KK or QQ are pushing? It's about the same as pushing 72 in this spot imo.
But thinking through:
Pushing with any 2 cards against our range at this point would be good, because besides AA we would fold anything if you b/f this flop with AK. And because of that, we should call a push.
Are people really thinking this deep though? And have the guts to act on it in a 5-way pot?
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MuddyWicket
if you fold this to a push after betting then the only hand you can call with is AA as you also fold KK, and you probably wouldn't raise preflop like this with AJ.
surely this would be seriously exploitable?
|
as exploitable as every hand where we have 5 people to the flop where it was 3bet preflop.
|
|
|
|
jackvance
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
as exploitable as every hand where we have 5 people to the flop where it was 3bet preflop.
|
Yeah, it's like being exploitable because you always fold royal flushes.. who cares, it doesn't affect your winrate.
|
|
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
|
|
MuddyWicket
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
|
|
fair points. Still learning cash and the vast depths of deep BB.
I'm struggling to see hands that stay in this pot that beat you. Surely AJ fold to the preflop raise? AA/44 feel unlikely to me and anyone raising your bet could be a cheeky AK/AQ. Maybe its the sng player in me that doesn't want to fold this.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
|
|
disconnect
In all seriousness tho, I think I'm stacking off on this flop with AK even 200bb+ deep. I don't think you could see a better flop for your hand for the fact that the likelihood of JJ is discounted and it's a rainbow board.
|
|
|
|
griffey24
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MuddyWicket
Surely AJ fold to the preflop raise?
|
If you're in the SB and have AQ, or AJ suited or any hand that you called the initial raise with. Then it gets repopped and EVERYONE in front of you called the re-raise, I think you would be very tempted to call hands like this to see what you flop, given the odds you're getting.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
disconnect
In all seriousness tho, I think I'm stacking off on this flop with AK even 200bb+ deep. I don't think you could see a better flop for your hand for the fact that the likelihood of JJ is discounted and it's a rainbow board.
|
why are you discounting JJ?
|
|
|
|
Toadstool
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
|
|
bet $100 - give people some room to try and bluff or call with middle pair/gutshot - call a raise depending on who it is that raises and to what.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
disconnect
In all seriousness tho, I think I'm stacking off on this flop with AK even 200bb+ deep. I don't think you could see a better flop for your hand for the fact that the likelihood of JJ is discounted and it's a rainbow board.
|
why are you discounting JJ? |
Cuz I wanna
Actually b/c I think it gets 3bet at this level a lot
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
|
|
BUMMMMMMMMMMMMMP
|
|
|
|
zenbitz
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
|
|
classic wa/wb. And there are only gutshots on the board, in a protected pot, And OOP to boot. This is why it's sometimes good to have a weak flop lead in your repetioir. I'd still be worried LAG goes nuclear.
I can see why you want to bet (to thin the field, mostly - I don't think you are getting much value from worse hands), but this is a tough hand to play OOP. I would probably just check.
|
|
|
|
zook
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
Umm... I was an idiot when I first posted this thread and wrote that it was a multi-part question. It's only a two-part question b/c I chose possibly the worst of all options and pushed. (Although I think checking could be worse than pushing.)
After reading responses I think I like a $150-$200 bet, call a push best.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
|
|
sooooooooooooooo?
omg tell me what happened
|
|
|
|
zook
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
Results in beige:
All folds except SB who calls with KJo. I scoop 140bb pot despite playing it like a moron. I pump my fist and laugh, but on the inside, I cry.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
