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pocketfours
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07-03-2009, 12:42 PM
Post subject: 2/4: 4bet pot deep
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Here's a quiz for the ones with too much time on their hands.
I'm on the button, villain is a good reg 25/22 with 9% 3-bet.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($930)
SB ($697.30)
BB ($699.10)
UTG ($328.20)
MP ($74)
CO ($1401.60)
Preflop:
3 folds, Button bets $8, 1 fold, BB raises to $40, Button raises to $112, BB calls $72
Flop: ($226) 6 , K, 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks
Turn: ($226) 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks
River: ($226) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Button bets $208, BB raises to $587.10 (All-In), Button calls $379.10
Total pot: $1400.20 | Rake: $3
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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After a mild headache.. I vote
Button has 8s7s, BB has AdQd.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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Waiting on Fed to kick some ass, so I'll give ya a go
Ad8d vs 8h8c intrigues me here, this option makes the least sense, which means it actually makes the most sense b/c the HH as played makes ZERO sense. My biggest drawback on this hand and the K9o vs. 77 option is that I'm not certain how often (or how optimal) the BB is 3betting these hands PF, specifically his reaction vs. a minraise.
8s7s vs AdQd makes sense postflop, although I doubt you're 4betting 87s, make it 87o and I like this option a lot more.
QQ vs QQ makes sense in the fact that:
a. PF makes sense
b. 2 medium-strength showdown hands which get to a river. BB realized BTN is value-betting thin, doesn't think he'll make a tough call.
Ruling out you holding AK,KK,89o b/c of flop/turn action (and PF sometimes too with AK) and KsJs b/c of PF as well (same reasoning w/ 87s, hands play better as a flat in my mind at least).
fuck this shit, let's just go grab some sushi in LV!
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
8s7s vs AdQd makes sense postflop, although I doubt you're 4betting 87s, make it 87o and I like this option a lot more.
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You could be right about this.
I just think BB having QQ on the river is the perfect card to simply c/c, so I think I want to rule out all QQ for BB.
I think Button will bet any K by the turn, so rule out all K's forbutton, including KK.
I think Button would definitely bet 89 on turn if he had it, so rule out 89.
So now we're left with my choice from before and:
Btn: QQ, BB: AKhh I think this option actually makes some sense, given stack sizes, that BB can show up with AK here and he turns hearts and doesn't feel the need to lead here. River QQ finally goes for some value and AK c/bombs.
Btn: Ad8d, BB:88 This option also makes some sense, though I feel like Btn would still bet this hand the majority of the time onthe flop, regardless of how much is behind. This hand is possible though, and BB decides to turn 88 into a bluff on the river which seems valid.
I think if I was going to change my vote I'd actually change it to A) now, since I think its more likely that AKhh chooses to flat OOP given stacks pre, than the nut FD not betting this flop. It's close between those two though, and I cancel my 8s7s vote.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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what about 97s, some people flat those to 3bs, but I don't know whether op would (actually this deep he would)
button can obviously have QQ/JJ as well because BB's raise wouldn't be QQ so QQ=JJ here I think
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I think someone played bad in every one of those options.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
After a mild headache.. I vote
Button has 8s7s, BB has AdQd.
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yah, and id fold if I were BTN
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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I voted 89o v TT
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pocketfours
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
After a mild headache.. I vote
Button has 8s7s, BB has AdQd.
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yah, and id fold if I were BTN |
Fold a straight in a 4bet pot? I don't like that fold.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
After a mild headache.. I vote
Button has 8s7s, BB has AdQd.
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yah, and id fold if I were BTN |
Fold a straight in a 4bet pot? I don't like that fold. |
trips.. w/e same thing
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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yah 89o vs TT makes sense too
either way they got flush or boat so we b/f those shipp the hand reading when they show AJo
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Props to spenda and griffey for solid thinking and good comments. Props to iopq and para for having the best taste in women.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Props to spenda and griffey for solid thinking and good comments. Props to iopq and para for having the best taste in women.
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and the winner is....?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,539
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BB probably has diamonds and button is repping 7x but may just have nothing. I hate preflop though if the button actually has a 7 in his hand.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Props to spenda and griffey for solid thinking and good comments. Props to iopq and para for having the best taste in women.
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and the winner is....? |
iopq avatar is the cutest, not close.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
BB probably has diamonds and button is repping 7x but may just have nothing. I hate preflop though if the button actually has a 7 in his hand.
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If you hate it then don't vote it.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,539
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
BB probably has diamonds and button is repping 7x but may just have nothing. I hate preflop though if the button actually has a 7 in his hand.
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If you hate it then don't vote it. |
That's not how it works in America 
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
BB probably has diamonds and button is repping 7x but may just have nothing. I hate preflop though if the button actually has a 7 in his hand.
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If you hate it then don't vote it. |
That's not how it works in America |
looooooooooooooolllllllllllllll
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Props to spenda and griffey for solid thinking and good comments. Props to iopq and para for having the best taste in women.
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and the winner is....? |
iopq avatar is the cutest, not close. |
Oh man I so disagree.... but I meant results
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,147
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griffey is spot on
I really wouldn't call river without a boat.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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He's calling the 4bet OOP, this can't be 77, 88, 87s, QJs. I hate to be the nit of the bunch, but it really seems like AA (BB) and KK (BU) are the most likely holdings and the river raise is just a bluff shove.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($930)
SB ($697.30)
BB ($699.10)
UTG ($328.20)
MP ($74)
CO ($1401.60)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 8
3 folds, Hero bets $8, 1 fold, BB raises to $40, Hero raises to $112, BB calls $72
Flop: ($226) 6, K, 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($226) 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
River: ($226) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $208, BB raises to $587.10 (All-In), Hero calls $379.10
Total pot: $1400.20 | Rake: $3
Results:
Hero had A, 8 (flush, Ace high).
BB had 8 , 8 (two pair, eights and sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $1397.20
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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boooooooooooooooooooooom
P4's what are your thoughts about 3betting hands like 66-99 against a button minraise from a solid player like yourself?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Props to spenda and griffey for solid thinking and good comments. Props to iopq and para for having the best taste in women.
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and the winner is....? |
iopq avatar is the cutest, not close. |
Just gonna throw this out there... Iopq has a history of putting up transexuals as avatars.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
boooooooooooooooooooooom
P4's what are your thoughts about 3betting hands like 66-99 against a button minraise from a solid player like yourself?
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Very nice spenda, very very nice. You outplayed some serious sharks in this hand. I would of course never 4bet 87s this deep in position, just like you said. I also can't understand why people think I would slowplay the flop or the turn.
I think 3betting 66-99 is fine if you want to maintain a maniac image, but it just sucks so bad to be 4bet this deep.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Just gonna throw this out there... Iopq has a history of putting up transexuals as avatars.
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What's wrong with transsexuals?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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btw, don't forget to play some gauntlet this year P4's
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Just gonna throw this out there... Iopq has a history of putting up transexuals as avatars.
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What's wrong with transsexuals? |
Nothing... Just wanted to let you know.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Just gonna throw this out there... Iopq has a history of putting up transexuals as avatars.
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What's wrong with transsexuals? |
Nothing... Just wanted to let you know. |
I'd still hit it.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
btw, don't forget to play some gauntlet this year P4's
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Why, you like loosing? 
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
btw, don't forget to play some gauntlet this year P4's
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Why, you like loosing? |
Nah, he needs all the help he can get to knock me out of my superior placing in the leader board.
Edit: In before Stacks makes some stupid comment about how he's in 1st even though his luckbox ass should have been rightfully knocked out by me in the 3rd game and even though he's played more games than me so suck it tagfish!!!
Edit #2: Also in before he makes reference to that damn 67o hand or the T8o vs T7s hand.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
btw, don't forget to play some gauntlet this year P4's
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Why, you like loosing? |
I could lose to you all day big boy
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Just gonna throw this out there... Iopq has a history of putting up transexuals as avatars.
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What's wrong with transsexuals? |
Nothing... Just wanted to let you know. |
I'd still hit it. |
it's not as funny if they don't act shocked 
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,147
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He probably made a good bluff, nh.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Edit: In before Stacks makes some stupid comment about how he's in 1st even though his luckbox ass should have been rightfully knocked out by me in the 3rd game and even though he's played more games than me so suck it tagfish!!!
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Your such a hater. And I was peer pressured into playing the PLO tourney, which I have no PLO experience whatsoever. So given my terrible score in that, you might just have a shot. I mean I doubt it because I'm going to busto your candy ass in the nlhe event later tonight, but who knows? Maybe you will run good one time?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,981
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i don't understand why you never 4bet 87s but 4bet A8s. They play virtually the same calling here (very well).
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i don't understand why you never 4bet 87s but 4bet A8s. They play virtually the same calling here (very well).
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thats true, i prob wouldnt 4bet either of them
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,130
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But you have blockers!!!
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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But we have A hi, who needs blockers !
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,539
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i don't understand why you never 4bet 87s but 4bet A8s. They play virtually the same calling here (very well).
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thats true, i prob wouldnt 4bet either of them |
QFT
just depends on the 3-bettor to, obviously.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i don't understand why you never 4bet 87s but 4bet A8s. They play virtually the same calling here (very well).
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My comment is still valid: it should be obvious that I don't 4bet 87s. The same isn't true for A8s, regardless of whether your statement holds, which I think it does.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,981
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yeah its tough to put you on a flush here, since the standard 4bet range are big hands and raggy offsuit air.
his shove seems pretty terrible since you are only gonna have air or a hand thats never folding when you bet that amount (for that reason i don't really care for your size). He should have just called if he wanted to get fancy.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,133
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
yeah its tough to put you on a flush here, since the standard 4bet range are big hands and raggy offsuit air.
his shove seems pretty terrible since you are only gonna have air or a hand thats never folding when you bet that amount (for that reason i don't really care for your size). He should have just called if he wanted to get fancy.
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I agree 100%, and I don't quite get some of the comments to the opposite.
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