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cjs55
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03-30-2007, 09:05 PM
Post subject: 10k hands .25/.50 6 max checkup
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,229
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How do you only go to show down 4%? I'm still not too familiar with PT type numbers but I swear that's super low. I'm not at home right now to check mine for comparison though. If that is too low though, looks like you're blowing too many opponents off winning hands and missing out on river value. Or getting blown off a lot of hands yourself.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,663
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Too conservative PF, IMO. 22% is ok for full ring, but in 6 handed you can play a lot more hands. Feeling loose I'm at 35-37% and 'tight' I'm at 27%
You should be set mining a lot more too - you aren't making nearly enough with PPs. 50NL is very easy to set mine.
Dunno how you showdown so little. That's either an error on the software, or a massive chip leak (folding winners and missing value on winners).
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cjs55
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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I'm using poker office, not poker tracker, and I think that makes a difference
So my VPIP is 26.8%, while my seeing the flop% is 22.8. So in your HUD I would be a 27/15 player. I know I limp too much (I blame reading NL Theory and Practice for that)
I'll post some hands where I flopped a set and figure out what I'm doing wrong there sometime.
Also, I think the showdown % might be different in PO than PT, where office uses all hands, PT uses only hands you actually played (didn't fold preflop).
Or I have a huge leak.
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vegascoop
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cjs55
I'm using poker office, not poker tracker, and I think that makes a difference
So my VPIP is 26.8%, while my seeing the flop% is 22.8. So in your HUD I would be a 27/15 player. I know I limp too much (I blame reading NL Theory and Practice for that)
I'll post some hands where I flopped a set and figure out what I'm doing wrong there sometime.
Also, I think the showdown % might be different in PO than PT, where office uses all hands, PT uses only hands you actually played (didn't fold preflop).
Or I have a huge leak. |
That's what I was thinking on the showdown percentage too. Looks a little weird with turn aggression being higher than flop aggression. I probably check the turn a little much but it is a neat trick at these levels for pot control and, more importantly, inducing bluffs.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,093
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I would think being 25/20 would be good VPIP/PFR for $50NL 6max. This is assuming you are solid postflop. What's ridiculous is you go to showdwon 4% of the time but you only win 53% of pots. You need to go to showdown more and keep that number relatively the same. You are folding away too much value. Im 27% WTSD and 53 W$@SD.
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vegascoop
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
Too conservative PF, IMO. 22% is ok for full ring, but in 6 handed you can play a lot more hands. Feeling loose I'm at 35-37% and 'tight' I'm at 27%
You should be set mining a lot more too - you aren't making nearly enough with PPs. 50NL is very easy to set mine.
Dunno how you showdown so little. That's either an error on the software, or a massive chip leak (folding winners and missing value on winners).
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Not sure I agree with this. I'm mining 100NL for my games and the winningest players are the 18/14/4+'s. There are quite a few of these and a couple good 25/12/3+ types. No one above 28 vpip in my top 10. I don't have more than 10K on any of these so it's certainly not a complete study but it was pretty eye opening to me to see how similar that stats were on some of the 'best' regs.
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Harry
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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I'm a winning player at .5/1 and 1/2 and I run around 18/14.
I think you should be c-betting more btw.
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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cjs55
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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Quote:
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What's ridiculous is you go to showdwon 4% of the time but you only win 53% of pots.
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I think it's clear that Poker Office calculates WtSD% there much differently than PT. Poker Office takes hands to showdown/total hands. I'm guessing PT does hands to showdown/hands that saw a flop or something like that. Using the second calculation I have 19% WtSD, probably still too low though.
Thanks for all the comments. Sounds like low flop agression may be a problem. Although obviously c-betting often makes alot more sense when you are 18/14 than when you are 27/15, I think I need to tighten up a bit preflop as well.
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Harry
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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Actually, c-betting wise, 18/14 and 27/15 are very similar, since c-bets only occur in hands where you were the PFR. 19% WtSD doesn't seem way too low to me.
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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cjs55
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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Quote:
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Actually, c-betting wise, 18/14 and 27/15 are very similar, since c-bets only occur in hands where you were the PFR.
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Ugh, sometimes I'm an idiot.
A question for anyone: Do you think 27/15 is a problem in and of itself?
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,476
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Probably not @ this level, but are you open limping? Eventually you will find yourself getting isolated preflop as you move to 100nl and beyond I think.
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Genitruc
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,868
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27/15 is absolutely fine if you're good postflop.
Also, I'd say your stats look fine assuming you don't limp too much ( can't figure out if the gap between your raise % and vpip is because you limp lots or because you cold-call lots).
I feel that limping is really bad unless your table is filled with shorties since it makes you completely readable (i.e. you limp-call then go ballistic on a 2-5-8 flop... any "thinking" playing is folding 99+ to you in a heartbeat ; but that may be o.k. at these levels.)
We could start a "limping sucks" thread but that's another story.
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When the vpips are high and the valuebets are like razors, who can be safe??
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cjs55
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 171
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I probably limp too much. I will certainly call after a few limpers with a low PP and good drawing hands. And I'll even open-limp pretty often.
I never used to do this. Then I read NL T and P by Sklansky. He really likes limping and makes some good arguments for it.
I think the problem here is that in short-handed limping is alot less useful. I wanted to integrate limping as a tool in my overal aresenal because it just makes your game so much more varied and unpredictable. Also, Sklansky makes a good point that limping is often profitable against weak opponents because they suck so much postflop that you want to see as many flops as you can against them. Those two thoughts led to me trying out limping in my game.
I'd limp with AJ on the button so I'd get AT-A2 to call and think they have the best hand. And I started to sometimes limp AA/AK/KK from EP to reraise, and I'd also reraise 78s from that position as well if people were raising me often.
I think this is is bad short-handed, and I've quit it now.
I still open-limp occasionally, and with enough hands to make my play not predictable. But I don't do it nearly as much now as I did 4k hands ago.
If I had to guess, my stats over the last 2k hands are probably more like 23/15.
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Genitruc
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,868
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I think limping after lots of ppl limp in EP is great.
Open-limping isn't so hot in LP since you steal the blinds lots and even when ppl call you you'll be in position.
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When the vpips are high and the valuebets are like razors, who can be safe??
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Harry
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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Yea, soooo much value in open raising in LP.
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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03-15-2010, 02:07 PM Sunday Tournament Report 3/14/2010
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