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100NL - Laggy UTG Villain C/R's Drawy A-High Turn

  
 
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BooG690
Old 09-30-2010, 03:47 PM     Post subject: 100NL - Laggy UTG Villain C/R's Drawy A-High Turn #1 (permalink)  
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 I've decided to begin posting in these forums. Just for the record, I'm pretty bad at poker but really want to get better. If my hands become super standard, let me know. I avoided posting because I was scared to get flamed and such...but that's such a bad reason to not post. Anywho, here's my hand.

UTG - Has shown laggy characteristics. A 27/24 cbetting 83% (6 opps) of the time. Only 74 hands on villain. He's been rather aggressive in all his postflop hands.

CO - A habitual squeezer who forgot to squeeze. The reason I called this hand was because I figured he was going to squeeze. Seems like a standard TAGG otherwise (postflop).

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($100)
Hero ($116.75)
CO ($92.50)
BTN ($167.50)
SB ($100)
BB ($101.50)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1
UTG raises to $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, CO calls $3.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($12, 3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($12, 3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7, CO folds, UTG raises to $23, $16 to Hero ($106.25)?

Villain checked two streets with the turn being a check-raise. The only legit hand I saw doing this was TT. The rest of his hands are probably some sort of draw (65s, 98s, QJ, KQ). I don't ever expect villain to have Ax, AA here.

As for my turn sizing, I hate it. With all the draws out there, I definitely should've bet more.

Therefore, I thought the best play would be to call and allow villain to bluff all his missed draws. Would that be the best play here?

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
 
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griffey24
Old 09-30-2010, 08:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think flatting in this particular spot pre is bad. I don't mind flatting with an habitual squeezer if opener is MP/CO and we're button or something. But even laggy squeezers can NOT squeeze when the opener is utg.

Opener being utg makes his range stronger AND our flatting range stronger.

As played, I would need better reads on his post-flop tendencies to continue here.
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Toadstool
Old 10-01-2010, 01:59 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 His range for checking that flop is most likely going to be stronger than his range for cbetting, I don't really see him showing up with many draws here at all, that you are ahead of. I assume he's cbetting that flop with anything that has a draw by the turn.
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vaks
Old 10-05-2010, 08:19 AM #4 (permalink)  
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yah you should 3b this preflop.. so you don't find yourself in awkward spots postflop with KK...

Id probably call and call a river and make a note however I think Ax can easily do this a lot on this kinda a board..

and please fix your raise sizing
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griffey24
Old 10-05-2010, 10:55 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool View Post
I assume he's cbetting that flop with anything that has a draw by the turn.
Yah I agree with this. He's probably cbetting hands like QJcc, KQcc. So not sure what draws he plays like this.
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rpm
Old 10-05-2010, 11:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 i've never really put much thought to it, but surely 3betting and having an opponent call with a dominated range out of position (the times he does) is going to be a higher EV than just flatting in case the guy who likes to squeeze squeezes. i mean even habitual squeezers can't be doing it more than 6-7% of the time right? (obv less in this spot because opener is in EP and has an even stronger than average range to be squeezing against) and if your UTG is LAGGY enough he may decide to 3bet hands like AK or AQs, which we dont give him the opportunity to by flatting. i can see flatting if we feel for whatever reason that the BU is squeezing some absolutely ridiculous amount of the time (tilted fish with aggro tendencies, lots of recent preflop aggression etc) but i would have thought that barring such unusual circumstances, 3betting here would be compulsory. my two cents.

(insert preferred "i'm a microstakes fish so i'm probably wrong" disclaimer here)

edit: plus this is 6-max, which i'm told plays a lot bigger than FR. the more aggressive the game is, ie the more willing people are to put money in the pot without necessarily AA,KK, the more we are costing ourselves (and our total 3bet range) by not 3betting the second nuts here, surely?
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sauce123
Old 10-05-2010, 04:21 PM #7 (permalink)  
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flatting is ok here, provided you have some reason to do so and arent clicking buttons. with zero reads i would 3bet for value because we have KK

as played i think your turn bet is just ok, mostly i would check down to the river and stab. i mean all you have to do to answer the question is break down the value/bluff/semibluff freq of the two other TAGs by street and calculate your equity

as played, definitely fold without further information. dont allow a non standard line to trick you into putting in 3 bets with a weak bluffcatcher and 2 outs to improve. too many things can go wrong
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lancelott_
Old 10-06-2010, 04:58 AM #8 (permalink)  
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griffey24
Old 10-06-2010, 11:05 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123 View Post
dont allow a non standard line to trick you into putting in 3 bets with a weak bluffcatcher
This is great advice, and something I do too often.
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jyms
Old 10-06-2010, 01:57 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Yea, could have used that advice 2 years and $20K ago.

Also, even habitual squeezers know the difference between UTG opens and competent MP callers and CO open and BTN callers. Pay more attention to who is in the hands and positions of players when using 3bet and squeeze reads. You would never blindly just 3bet the same way vs some as you do others
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oskar
Old 10-10-2010, 12:34 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
Villain checked two streets with the turn being a check-raise. The only legit hand I saw doing this was TT. The rest of his hands are probably some sort of draw (65s, 98s, QJ, KQ). I don't ever expect villain to have Ax, AA here.
I think AA is the most likely hand.
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Micro2Macro
Old 10-11-2010, 06:07 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 wow for once I agree entirely with oskar.

tagfish are always checking top set here then magically waking up on the turn. TT would probably play like this as well. If he was gonna bluff surely he would have taken a line that doesn't involve checking twice as the pfr.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-12-2010, 01:11 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123 View Post
flatting is ok here, provided you have some reason to do so and arent clicking buttons. with zero reads i would 3bet for value because we have KK

as played i think your turn bet is just ok, mostly i would check down to the river and stab. i mean all you have to do to answer the question is break down the value/bluff/semibluff freq of the two other TAGs by street and calculate your equity

as played, definitely fold without further information. dont allow a non standard line to trick you into putting in 3 bets with a weak bluffcatcher and 2 outs to improve. too many things can go wrong
Was basically gonna say this. However I start clicking call a lot on turn and river cause it just seems really FoS.
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