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JL
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11-05-2009, 07:40 AM
Post subject: $100NL - I decide to call twice with JJ preflop
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 879
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UTG is running 28/12 and insta called the squeeze.
Squeezer seems Laggy running 32/28 with 13% 3bet, but this is a small sample size.
I think UTG is weak with his snap call, so maybe just 4bet preflop?
Thoughts as played?
$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($125.55)
CO ($122.40)
BTN ($110.35)
Hero (SB) ($97.50)
BB ($169.80)
Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is SB  
UTG raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.50, BB raises to $14, UTG calls $11, Hero calls $11
Flop:    ($42, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $30.50, UTG folds, Hero calls $30.50
Turn:  ($103, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $53, Hero calls $53 and is all-in
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,093
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I usually fold pre, if however I decide Im gonna continue to that 3bet Id rather 4b/call.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jarlith44
it is impossible for your gut to get a reliable “cosmic read” on what will play out in that hand.
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yo
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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I dont see how pre isnt a clear fold. I feel dirty saying flop is a fold too.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Bbickes
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Disturbia
Posts: 841
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I'm really tempted to backraise/call here esp if UTG is an obv fish but meh small sample size. Depending on how strong of a read you have on UTG I like backraising > folding > calling.
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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backraising is bad since I figure we have no FE
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,713
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I got a similar guy to stackoff with ATs preflop when I backraised him, but I felt good about my reads even though it wasnt a large sample.
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Just playing to improve.
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Ravageur
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 760
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i don't see how we don't have f/e here PF and we have the best hand a decent portion of the time vs described villain. This seems to be a good spot to backraise.
I don't think we need to worry too much about UTG because he'll usually be 4-betting KK-AA to protect because he knows you will be calling if he calls.
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Family Cruise IMO
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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it just my opinion that this ''laggy'' player isnt squeezing vs utg, imo he is value 3betting. so i think we have very little FE.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 3,560
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I'm with rav here, very tempted in a backraise pre.
I don't think villain would snap call KK/AA and would certainly at least think about 4betting. QQ is the most likely hand that beats us that I'm worried about.
dagoat - I think you give too much credit to these laggs. If anything he could think his sq looks stronger since its UTG that opened, and do it lighter still. The fact that UTG opened just makes his sq range more polarized I'd imagine.
As played on the flop, it's a pretty crappy spot and I doubt he expects two folds. Don't mind a fold here, sucks.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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I could be wrong I just beleive that 100nl is the cutoff point for 3betting light in BB by the lag. At 200nl Id accept it.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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grindinginnj
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 118
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What is a backraise?
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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griffey24
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 3,560
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by grindinginnj
What is a backraise?
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Villain Opens
Hero CALLS
Villain 2 Squeezes
Villain Calls
Hero RAISES
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: myspace.com/alyell
Posts: 411
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grindinginnj
What is a backraise?
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Villain Opens
Hero CALLS
Villain 2 Squeezes
Villain Calls
Hero RAISES |
Is it still considered a backraise if Villain1 folds to Villain2's squeeze?
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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yea
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 3,560
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Yaah still a backraise. Pretty sure anytime you call once and then raise after on the same street, it's considered a backraise.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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grindinginnj
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 118
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gotcha thx.
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,713
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Very cool v's people who just cant help squeezing, or if you have 2-3 people behind you who are fairly likely to squeeze, but dont overuse it as an excuse to be fancy.
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Just playing to improve.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,095
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JJ is the nuts in this spot preflop, given reads/stats of villains
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They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face! Ear to ear baby!
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ATOTHEC101
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manc U.K.
Posts: 1,197
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yeah I'm just jamming this pre after the squeeze and call.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Ravageur
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 760
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i see ur point dagoat but i think because this is 5-handed so utg is just the hijack he still can have a relatively wide range. Like griffey said, if utg had called the 3-bet i would be more worried about him having QQ than the squeezer having us beat.
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Family Cruise IMO
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,663
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Definitely jam pre, not even close. You WILL get callled sometimes by pocket 8s, 9s, 10s, AJ+ by some laggy guys who 3bet wide but don't really get why or when its good, or how you are likely to respond
Quote:
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backraising is bad since I figure we have no FE
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DaGoat, if you do believe we have no FE, this is a FANTASTIC spot to shove vs. a 13% 3bet range
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,144
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I agree pretty strongly w/ Griffey, Ravageur, Alexos, ATOTHEC101, and mixchange.
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Kiriath
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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all in preflop after the 3bet and call.
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Da GOAT
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
DaGoat, if you do believe we have no FE, this is a FANTASTIC spot to shove vs. a 13% 3bet range
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lets let this thread die but ill just say i think he def doesnt have 13% in this spot. imo he holds big nut hands.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
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backkrrraaaaiiiiisssseeee
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