100NL fish owns my soul by calling raise and donking turn

08-06-2009 05:43 PM

guy is 42/12 and bet pots everything
is this kind of tilty? I don't really expect him to fold but I have a bajillion outs

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($179.70)
Hero (UTG) ($101.50)
MP ($100)
Button ($108.30)
SB ($100.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, 9

Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB calls $2.50

Flop: ($11) 7

, Q

, 8

(3 players)
BB bets $5, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BB calls $9

Turn: ($39) 5

(2 players)
BB bets $39, Hero raises to $84 (All-In)

**griffey24** · 08-06-2009 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by iopq

I don't really expect him to fold but I have a bajillion outs

Whattt? I would only do this if by some miracle he folds better. What's the point otherwise?

Why are you shoving, when you don't expect him to fold, instead of calling or folding?

This only makes sense against like JTdd or KJdd or something.

08-06-2009 08:47 PM

I think it's because I'd feel dirty folding for $40 on the river in a $120 pot when I miss

**minSim** · 08-06-2009 08:58 PM

As I don't think villain basically ever has a worse hand calling or better hand folding after this turn bet, you need like 41% equity, which you don't have. Just call and save almost half a buy-in.

**Parasurama** · 08-06-2009 09:10 PM

This is bad if you don't expect him to fold or have worse draws but imo this looks a lot like a worse draw and given his stats he'll probably call it off.

**Da GOAT** · 08-06-2009 10:19 PM

call flop is way better than raising

**bjsaust** · 08-06-2009 10:26 PM

If he never folds whats the point of shoving? Call and commit the rest if you hit and otherwise save your money.

Semibluff is only good if the bluff part works.

**minSim** · 08-07-2009 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

call flop is way better than raising

are you sure?
Seems to me we have a decent amount FE on the flop, we're not very bad when getting it in, we're charging worse draws and it buys us 2 cards often.

**Da GOAT** · 08-07-2009 07:28 AM

I think the FE by a leader in a 3way pot isnt as big as you think, your equity isnt that great if you get it in on flop, so you are barrelling each street or planning to check back?

As played I think turn is one of the worst plays ever.

**BigPapi** · 08-07-2009 08:18 AM

Turn seems close call/fold. After you raise flop, is he still potting turn w worse draws?

That said, just call flop, call turn here imo

**minSim** · 08-07-2009 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

I think the FE by a leader in a 3way pot isnt as big as you think, your equity isnt that great if you get it in on flop, so you are barrelling each street or planning to check back?

As played I think turn is one of the worst plays ever.

I interpreted villains description as him being bad, which makes me give villain less credit than usual for his flop lead. Consequence being that hero either has more FE, or villain get's it in lighter than usual. Both favor a flop raise.

I definately intend to check back the turn once the flop raise is called. (that's actually what I meant by saying a flop raise can buy hero 2 cards)

08-06-2009 05:43 PM #1
Guest	100NL fish owns my soul by calling raise and donking turn guy is 42/12 and bet pots everything is this kind of tilty? I don't really expect him to fold but I have a bajillion outs Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($179.70) Hero (UTG) ($101.50) MP ($100) Button ($108.30) SB ($100.50) Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, 9 Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB calls $2.50 Flop: ($11) 7, Q, 8 (3 players) BB bets $5, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BB calls $9 Turn: ($39) 5 (2 players) BB bets $39, Hero raises to $84 (All-In)

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08-06-2009 06:00 PM #2
griffey24 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 4,947 Location Toronto'ish	Re: 100NL fish owns my soul by calling raise and donking tur Originally Posted by iopq I don't really expect him to fold but I have a bajillion outs Whattt? I would only do this if by some miracle he folds better. What's the point otherwise? Why are you shoving, when you don't expect him to fold, instead of calling or folding? This only makes sense against like JTdd or KJdd or something.
	Originally Posted by Jay-Z I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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08-06-2009 08:47 PM #3
Guest	I think it's because I'd feel dirty folding for $40 on the river in a $120 pot when I miss

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08-06-2009 08:58 PM #4
minSim View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 1,525 Location Deventer	As I don't think villain basically ever has a worse hand calling or better hand folding after this turn bet, you need like 41% equity, which you don't have. Just call and save almost half a buy-in.

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08-06-2009 09:10 PM #5
Parasurama View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Nov 2008 Posts 1,054 Location DMT	This is bad if you don't expect him to fold or have worse draws but imo this looks a lot like a worse draw and given his stats he'll probably call it off.

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100NL fish owns my soul by calling raise and donking turn

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100NL fish owns my soul by calling raise and donking turn

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08-06-2009 10:19 PM #6
Da GOAT View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2006 Posts 4,923 Location Dublin	call flop is way better than raising
	Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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08-06-2009 10:26 PM #7
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	If he never folds whats the point of shoving? Call and commit the rest if you hit and otherwise save your money. Semibluff is only good if the bluff part works.
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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08-07-2009 06:23 AM #8
minSim View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 1,525 Location Deventer	Originally Posted by Da GOAT call flop is way better than raising are you sure? Seems to me we have a decent amount FE on the flop, we're not very bad when getting it in, we're charging worse draws and it buys us 2 cards often.

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08-07-2009 07:28 AM #9
Da GOAT View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2006 Posts 4,923 Location Dublin	I think the FE by a leader in a 3way pot isnt as big as you think, your equity isnt that great if you get it in on flop, so you are barrelling each street or planning to check back? As played I think turn is one of the worst plays ever.
	Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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08-07-2009 08:18 AM #10
BigPapi View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2007 Posts 559 Location Rotterdam, Holland	Turn seems close call/fold. After you raise flop, is he still potting turn w worse draws? That said, just call flop, call turn here imo

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08-07-2009 09:44 AM #11
minSim View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 1,525 Location Deventer	Originally Posted by Da GOAT I think the FE by a leader in a 3way pot isnt as big as you think, your equity isnt that great if you get it in on flop, so you are barrelling each street or planning to check back? As played I think turn is one of the worst plays ever. I interpreted villains description as him being bad, which makes me give villain less credit than usual for his flop lead. Consequence being that hero either has more FE, or villain get's it in lighter than usual. Both favor a flop raise. I definately intend to check back the turn once the flop raise is called. (that's actually what I meant by saying a flop raise can buy hero 2 cards)

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