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Da GOAT
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11-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Post subject: 100nl AA river decision
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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opp 26/10/28%AF%/400 hands
ive been stealing alot on 2 of his tbls and against bb on another tbl. he has 3bet me once so far and has called in blinds vs me too. hasnt gotten out of line from what i can see.
This hand had me thinking alot today and ive changed my mind about it a few times so im interested in your thoughts.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG WaiShoot ($51.32)
UTG+1 LoLLboLL89 ($97.00)
CO Hero ($99.50)
BTN P18 ($65.91)
SB joaengm ($112.74)
BB -100- ($129.53)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is CO  
WaiShoot raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, -100- calls $9, WaiShoot folds
Flop:    ($23.50, 2 players)
-100- checks, Hero bets $16, -100- calls $16
Turn:  ($55.50, 2 players)
-100- checks, Hero checks
River:  ($55.50, 2 players)
-100- bets $102.53, Hero calls $73.50
[Results Hidden]
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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easiest call ever
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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haha cool.
i felt it was a good call to begin with then i guess i out thought myself about what the hell does he think i have that calls shove given my line. i think opp is just retarded.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Hm I'm always scared this is the 9 who missed his value on the turn and wants to get it on the river.. why is this so easy?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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his line just didnt make any sense. thats how i felt i shud just check this on forum.
basically im repping a very weak range thus he shouldnt be shoving his strong hands like that since he is losing alot of value.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Dontworryboutit
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dont worry bout it
Posts: 15
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Yeah, I dont see how it was the easiest call ever but would it be likely though for him having a Nine to a re-raise PF? It would have to depend on the player in that situation but most likely though its a solid call because he may have an overpair aswell and thinks you missed your AK with the FD.
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Poker, its easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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So did he have the 9? Or was it really air?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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he almsot never has a 9 since he cold called a 3bet.
he had 44 but meh
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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He wants his FH to get him paid, so he shoves the river after he got no value on turn. You see this sort of line quite a lot. I don't think it's that strange. Not sure how to spot the bluff allins though.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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since he cold called a 3bet u shudnt give him many XsXs hands besides AKss and AQss whihc will shove alot of flops. overpairs like TT-QQ are in his range alot plus if they have a spade.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
since he cold called a 3bet u shudnt give him many XsXs hands besides AKss and AQss whihc will shove alot of flops. overpairs like TT-QQ are in his range alot plus if they have a spade.
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he cant have Axs ldo. He cold called a 3bet preflop out of position so he has a 9 never. this is a really simple hand. the shove is pretty unexpected but i happily pay him his money if he wants to call my 3bets out of position with 66/44
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I really don't see why this is an 'easy call' at all. I fold the river pretty fast.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I really don't see why this is an 'easy call' at all. I fold the river pretty fast.
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Yah I was thinking the same thing. This looks like one of those "dammit, I missed my turn check raise, need to jam river to makeup for lost value" spots.
If I had a read that he was bluffy, that would change things. I definitely don't snap call this, probably call some and fold some. I'd rather call with QQ or KK here, when he can at least be buffing with the As or something.
I think people definitely can have 89s and 9Ts here as well.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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oops sorry I missed that he CCed a 3bet, that changes a lot obviously.
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L_Clan_Sup3rMaN
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 834
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Hmmm maybe villain was thinking he was getting set odds to call $10 PF and get stacks in if he hits....CC a 3bet without being concerned about the original raiser or not thinking that 3bettor's range could be polarized. terribad.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
oops sorry I missed that he CCed a 3bet, that changes a lot obviously.
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dammmit!.. I missed that he cold-called too.. thought this was all original raiser.
gg reading abilities. ok so scrap the T9s and 89s etc etc.. this is much more of a call now that most of his range is pocket pairs.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
since he cold called a 3bet u shudnt give him many XsXs hands besides AKss and AQss whihc will shove alot of flops. overpairs like TT-QQ are in his range alot plus if they have a spade.
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he cant have Axs ldo. He cold called a 3bet preflop out of position so he has a 9 never. this is a really simple hand. the shove is pretty unexpected but i happily pay him his money if he wants to call my 3bets out of position with 66/44 |
yup. i said he never has a 9 here 3 posts up if u didnt see that btw.
at the time i felt it was a fine call but i think i started overthinking it in hindsight.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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vaks
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 331
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maybe this is not the right thinking, but don't we have to call here after checking behind on this turn?
and shouldn't we be betting this turn also?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vaks
and shouldn't we be betting this turn also?
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Yes, although I don't hate a check intending to shove any river.
You're miles ahead on the turn, it's more a matter of what you think will get you the money and if you care enough to balance out your 3-bet bluff range against this guy.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Pretty easy fold IMO.
100NL standard fish always do this when they have missed a ton of value.
Learnt that the hard way.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Luke999
Pretty easy fold IMO.
100NL standard fish always do this when they have missed a ton of value.
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You beat many of his missed value hands.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Luke999
Pretty easy fold IMO.
100NL standard fish always do this when they have missed a ton of value.
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You beat many of his missed value hands. |
I guess if you think they shove 46/42/64/1010+ (over PP being way more likely)
But from experience when they shove the river like this it is normally with a 9 in this situation or a flopped flush/boat.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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luke, this guy cold called a reraise out of the blinds. You are making no attempt at handreading if you are suggesting that he can have this wide of an assortment of better hands.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Quote:
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luke, this guy cold called a reraise out of the blinds. You are making no attempt at handreading if you are suggesting that he can have this wide of an assortment of better hands.
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He is as 26/10, his calling range is wide but do you really think when he shoves the river its with a bluff enough to call this, because I really don't. 100NL the players are so bad and when he checks the turn he is making up for missed value, it may sound simple but then again so are the players.
I could be wrong but from great experience at this level these plays you see all the time by fish.
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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I dont really think anybody has that wide of a cold calling a raise and reraise range.
The only things I can see him doing this for value with that is worse than your hand is KK and possibly QQ, and even then he might not just shove the river. and go for a C/C
I also agree that there are pretty much no 9x hands in his range unless he is really tilted. The only missed draw that he can realistically have is AxKs. So a missed draw isn't a really big part of his range IMO.
Going by his stats I wouldn't be surprised if he just called any raise with any PP, and I don't think he is the type to turn his hand into a bluff and based on his preflop stats seems to be the more passive type who would prefer to C/C rather than shove with a marginal hand - ie a PP which hasn't hit a set, with the slight exception of maybe KK.
Pretty polarized range then really - 22/44/99/KK/AxKs? is it realistic that they make up the bulk of his range?
A couple of other things to notice are that his shove is an overbet - going by experience that is usually a stronger hand.
Also, he probably thinks you don't have much - he probably puts you on AK, because thats what people always put people on.
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Grinder4Life
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
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I wish I didn't see results so I can say fold.
Although his range is narrow, those monster overbet shoves at 100nl is most often the nuts.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
he had 44 but meh
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*shrug* he made a terrible pre-flop call and got there. Variance, you played the hand fine.
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