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szamvan
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01-27-2008, 03:33 AM
Post subject: 10$ HUSNG - thin v-bet or spew?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero (t1470)
BB (t1530)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9 , 8.
Hero raises to t60, BB calls t40.
Flop: (t120) 2 , 8, 7 (2 players)
BB bets t80, Hero raises to t200, BB calls t120.
Turn: (t520) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
River: (t520) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t300
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Out of interest, what hands do you think you're getting value out of that call this bet but you're ahead of?
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Just playing to improve.
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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Its thin, but remember this is a 10$ HUSNG so I think a lot of ppl would call ("bluff-catch") with any pair and almost everybody I played with would call with a pair of sevens. By the way I think the flop lead/call and check turn, check river line seems weak.
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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I def check behind here.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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spew oddly enough
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Stop worrying about whether something is weak or not, and worry about winning the tourney. Opp has showed strength leading flop and calling your raise. At these low levels nothing seems cleverer than check/raising when they've hit their hand. Opp either has a FD on the flop, a straight draw, at least one pair, or two overs. Straight draw didnt come in and he wont call, FD did come in, two overs may well have hit with the K which he might not bet because of the 3-flush but he'll probably call, and obviously any kind of two pair or set will call. You beat literally two possibilities which may call your bet, a pair of 7s and a pair of 2s, and most times even here the 2's will fold.
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Just playing to improve.
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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Yeah and I am beating a pair of 8s with a lower kicker also and sickly enough thats what happened (8 5 SOOTED oop def ownz them all)
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Results dont matter, the point is that of the hands that dont fold to your bet, more of them either call and beat you, or raise you and beat you, than call and you beat. That makes it a -EV play.
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Just playing to improve.
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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I know they don't matter I just said it because that is def in the range of a typical 11$ turbo husng opponent (u know "any two cards can win"). My problem is that sometimes I talk myself into marginal to losing calls and bets either because I think I am leveling or because I think that he is so bad, whichever applies and then "go with the read". Although here I am not 100% convinced that this is the case, PokerStove would help I guess.
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Ok heres what you want to hear:
Great play keep it up.
Reality and what everybody but you is saying:
It is a spew.
I know you are going to take this the wrong way, but when players who are way better than you and me tell you that a play is -ev they are right. There is a reason they are playing so much higher up. Not just in this post but among others that I have read of yours I feel like all you want is for people to agree that you did the right thing. If you are less defensive you will see easier why a certain hand should be played differently to maximize ev.
Opening up your mind to the fact that others may be right will only help you become better faster because there won't be a long struggle of trying repeatedly to do it your way unsuccessfully.
Please think about this. I am not going after you, I am trying to help you get better.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Ok heres what you want to hear:
Great play keep it up.
Reality and what everybody but you is saying:
It is a spew.
I know you are going to take this the wrong way, but when players who are way better than you and me tell you that a play is -ev they are right. There is a reason they are playing so much higher up. Not just in this post but among others that I have read of yours I feel like all you want is for people to agree that you did the right thing. If you are less defensive you will see easier why a certain hand should be played differently to maximize ev.
Opening up your mind to the fact that others may be right will only help you become better faster because there won't be a long struggle of trying repeatedly to do it your way unsuccessfully.
Please think about this. I am not going after you, I am trying to help you get better.
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Ok heres what you want to hear:
Great play keep it up.
Reality and what everybody but you is saying:
It is a spew.
I know you are going to take this the wrong way, but when players who are way better than you and me tell you that a play is -ev they are right. There is a reason they are playing so much higher up. Not just in this post but among others that I have read of yours I feel like all you want is for people to agree that you did the right thing. If you are less defensive you will see easier why a certain hand should be played differently to maximize ev.
Opening up your mind to the fact that others may be right will only help you become better faster because there won't be a long struggle of trying repeatedly to do it your way unsuccessfully.
Please think about this. I am not going after you, I am trying to help you get better.
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TY for helping, I am not defensive because I think it is a great play I just play devil's advocate until I see clearly that I am wrong and the intention is to know the reasons behind the lines and not to become a kind of poker-bot playing a line coz bjsaust and givememyleg and ISF and everybody said so and not because I understand it.
I really don't want anyone to take offense if I am arguing in behalf of a disgustingly terrible line I probably just wanna learn poker and practice critical thinking. (lol that last sentence was incredibly over-sentimental, need to boost up my English skillz too :P)
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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If you add a pair of 8's with lower kicker into his range, you need to add a pair of 8's with higher kicker into his range. Whilst he may reraise pre some of the top of that range, he'll also fold pre more of the bottom of that range, with a net effect of about 0 to his calling/raising range that you beat.
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Just playing to improve.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Yeah, I often want to play devil's advocate but don't because I'll look like a prick.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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I like it.
here's the real question: what would you have done if you faced a CRAI after?
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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obv fold
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by szamvan
obv fold
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not the answer i'm looking for
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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szamvan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: HUSNGs
Posts: 152
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Yeah I am starting to see that I played it wrongly if that was some kind of proof by contradiction of that. I don't think river check-raises are that common at these stakes but maybe I am completely wrong cause I can't compare it with anything. Maybe some higher stake player could help to resolve this doubtfulness of mine :P
What answer are you looking for?
I don't think he would CRAI me with something which I beat, and I have no reasons to assume that he is bluffing (or do I?). I think he would most probably show some crazy two pair or at least a king and I wouldn't except him to be leveling.
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Where I am, I don't know, I'll never know, in the silence you don't know, you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by szamvan
Yeah I am starting to see that I played it wrongly if that was some kind of proof by contradiction of that. I don't think river check-raises are that common at these stakes but maybe I am completely wrong cause I can't compare it with anything. Maybe some higher stake player could help to resolve this doubtfulness of mine :P
What answer are you looking for?
I don't think he would CRAI me with something which I beat, and I have no reasons to assume that he is bluffing (or do I?). I think he would most probably show some crazy two pair or at least a king and I wouldn't except him to be leveling.
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a better answer, ty
its a trick question. this is obviously all opponent dependent
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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