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pdawg23

01-30-2008, 08:40 PM Post subject: $50 NL Opinions?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 5

First time poster here,
I've been playing online for a year now without much success.
I was always even.
Played all kinds of style after reading all kinds of different articles.
Still, didn't make much money.
Recently I started playing 6-max only.
I used to play tight aggressive utilizing my position very well.
Regardless, too many fish to really profit from tight playing.
Not too long ago I met a player who was making 3x the buy-in on three tables.
Obviously a regular and he played many many hands.
I started doing that and been making a lot of money for the past week.
I'm talking about limping with 7 8 suited out of position or Q 3 not suited out of position.
It's unbelievable the hands you hit if you play enough.
Sometimes I feel like a fish limping in out of position with 5 3 suited or not.
But I do play post flop very well.
What do you guys think? (People who play $50 NL please)
Of course, on higher stakes, it would be unacceptable to play like this.
I'm sticking to this style cause I'm racking up.

Yesterday I made $350 in 4 hrs playing $50 NL only.
Any opinion appreciated.

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thizzSantaCruz

01-30-2008, 08:58 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

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short term variance, open limping and loose preflop is very easy for a good player to take advantage of. don't let your good results convince you to play bad.

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

Ash256

01-30-2008, 09:05 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: UK

Posts: 1,760

WARNING: This post will come across as really harsh and horrible, but I honestly don't mean it in a horrible way - you need to hear this stuff.

Variance man. Variance is the swings of positive or negative luck. They skew your results more dramatically than you can ever imagine at this point.

You're limping in with crap and you're getting lucky. Your strategy is so so so bad at the moment, and if I found you, be sure that you'd be on my buddylist.

If you continue with this strategy you're going to lose at poker. In fact you're a losing player already, just luck's yet to catch up with you.

Can you explain to me what you mean by "utilizing position well"?

Oh, the guy making 3x the buyin was probs just lucky - I saw a thread on a forum the other day where there was a fish who'd been playing for 24 hours and had 25x the buyin on his table - and that's just the beginning of how luck can affect your results.

Also, can you give us examples of playing post flop poker well?

In summary: You suck at poker. Seriously. Stick around here and you'll learn how to play good poker - I don't think you understand even the basics of good poker.

Thank your deity for bringing you to FTR! Had you not come here you'd probably have lost a lot of money.

Listen to my music

mixchange

01-30-2008, 09:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Quote:

Regardless, too many fish to really profit from tight playing.

actually its just the opposite, its easier to play tight and profit from fish

if you continue playing garbage cards you will have big swings as ash aluded to, when it works you feel like a genius but frequently you will quit as a loser.

It just sounds like you don't know how to play tight profitably.

meeloche

01-30-2008, 10:38 PM Post subject: Re: $50 NL Opinions?

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdawg23

First time poster here,

I used to play tight aggressive utilizing my position very well.
Regardless, too many fish to really profit from tight playing.

You have this backwards, the best way to make money from fish is to play tight aggressive

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdawg23

I'm talking about limping with 7 8 suited out of position or Q 3 not suited out of position.
It's unbelievable the hands you can hit if you get lucky enough.

I am a fish limping out of position with 5 3 suited.
But I think play post flop very well.
I'm sticking to this style until I inevitably lose the rest of my bankroll.

I would recommend that you stop what you are doing and read a ton of the stickies and posts on ftr until you understand why the strategy you have come up with is a loosing one and come up with a tag style that works for you. There is ton's of info here in the beginners circle and the other poker forums if you take the time to read it.

nutsinho

01-31-2008, 12:45 AM Post subject: Re: $50 NL Opinions?

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdawg23

Not too long ago I met a player who was making 3x the buy-in on three tables.

wow!

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

will641

01-31-2008, 01:42 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

i dont mean to be mean, but limping garbage like Q3 suited oop and pretty much limping period is probably the biggest fish characteristic as far as preflop goes.

villain here has K7. this is why you dont play crappy hands like this. you get into bad spots like this.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($72.90)
BB ($21.85)
Hero ($123.25)
Button ($64.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, A

.
Hero raises to $4, Button calls $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) 4

, K

, 3

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9, Button calls $9, BB folds.

Turn: ($30.50) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $22, Button calls $22.

River: ($74.50) 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $88.25 (All-In), Button calls $29.90 (All-In).

Final Pot: $134.3

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

will641

01-31-2008, 01:44 AM Post subject: Re: $50 NL Opinions?

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdawg23

Not too long ago I met a player who was making 3x the buy-in on three tables.

wow!

and what exactly do you mean you met a player who was making 3x the buy in on 3 tables. that doesnt make any sense. you mean he made 3x the buy in in one sitting? 3bb/100?

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

pdawg23

01-31-2008, 04:42 AM Post subject: Thanks

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 5

All opinions are welcome, really.
Even the mean ones..haha
The reason I posted this was really to improve and see what more experienced players thought.
I do agree with you guys and I swear I used to have a very strict starting hands after reading stuff from two plus two and here.
This is why I asked for people who play on $50 NL to respond.
To answer some of the questions.
At the $50 I really am comfortable and really don't lose much.

So by playing post-flop well I mean I have a really good read on the players.
I'm not making up stuff but I usually know what people have post flop.
That is, against people who play at this stake (many bad players)

And the player I found, he had $150 on all the tables he was playing (3). I happened to be playing three too.
You don't really see big stacks like that on the $50 NL.
There might be one or two +$100 stacks.

Yes, it is variance and the stack will swing.
I have had some really bad beats playing fishy like this.
lower straight, lower full house, etc.

But at this stake, maximum you can lose on a really bad luck is $50-$100
Say I have 150 and go all in on a lower full house and the opponent has a higher one. Not many people have such a big stack so I will probably not lose all of it. Really haven't lost more than 80 bucks on a really unlucky hand which comes once in a very while.

In the meantime. many players at this stake go all in with top pair, straight on a flush board, holding pocket pairs, and so on.
I'm not lying and I'm sure you guys know it too. More than half at this stake are bad players and they love to go all in with not much.

So please tell me if this style of play is really bad for this stake??
Obviously I'm asking this cause I'm not sure either.
I mean I made 500 in a week playing like this..
I can't believe it either, that's why I'm asking you guys.
I can't believe this is what it takes to win at this level...to be a fish
And I agreed that it is very fish like to play crap and I never did that b4, but if that brings in money who cares about being a fish right?
Don't you guys agree that the most important thing in poker is adapting to your table or the players?

Previously I had a very narrow set of starting hands and played real good starting hands only.

I'm open to any opinion..mean ones included
But if you don't have much experience playing at this stake, don't bother.

pdawg23

01-31-2008, 04:49 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 5

And to answer will's hand history.
Post flop, I will never go all in with K high. Unless I for sure know the opponent has been playing very aggressive and been bluffing a lot. I know when to fold.
In summary, yes there is a price to pay for playing crap hands, but the benefits have been a lot more substantial. I don't mind paying $100 if I'm gonna win $400 by playing loose.

meeloche

01-31-2008, 05:01 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

I don't think you understand why they are called crap hands. It is because in the long run you will lose money with them. I recently moved up to 100nl after beating 50nl with a decent win rate by playing tight aggressive. You ask anybody who beats that level and 99.99999% of them do it by playing tight aggressive. I assure you if you play 20 thousand hands in the style you described you will go broke. Thats why you're style is deemed fishy. I'm telling you I look for players playing you're style whenever I play, it contributes to my win rate nicely.

Honestly I don't have anything to gain in how you decide to play poker from now on. I and everybody else that has posted who are winning players will tell you that your strategy will not work. If you want to have long term success you should read about bankroll management and the stickies in the beginners circle and the poker forums. Although if you would like to continue to donate to the online poker community thats fine by me as well.

will641

01-31-2008, 05:51 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

yes the players at 50 NL suck. but there are also enough competent tags that will eat you up if you play like that. that style sucks. thats why every time i see someone running 60/10 i stay at the table as long as possible. people who say, "oh i just cant win at these stakes when i play good poker" are horribly wrong. they say that because they arent good, and are blind to the fact that they need to improve.

how many hands have you played using this 'style'? and $500 is only 10 buy ins. that is not amazing. its called running good.

just post some hands so people can look at what you are doing right/wrong.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

pdawg23

01-31-2008, 06:08 AM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 5

Will and Meelo, the last two posts were very helpful.
I just wanted you guys to understand me fully and it seems like you guys do.
Thanks a lot really, the long term thing seems to be very true.
I played about 5000 hands this style. And Meelo saying 20k hands and plus makes sense.
I've not used this style for 20k plus hands so can't know what it would be like.
I guess I was basing this good run on a short term. (It really seemed easy to me)
Now I'm fully convinced that in the long term this style is nono, and I knew that and that's why I wanted to confirm it here.
I will start playing differently
Really appreciate it guys

thizzSantaCruz

01-31-2008, 07:50 AM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

screen name and site please.

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

BigPapi

01-31-2008, 08:17 AM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2007

Location: Rotterdam, Holland

Posts: 437

as said before: take your profit and start playing normal or you'll lose it all... I've seen so many loose players 60+/10+ be at a 50NL table with 200, only to lose all in the very same session. To be honest, you lose credibility against a lot of players, which is good. but there are better ways to get this done which won't cost you as many in the long run.

at 50NL, yes people will stack off occassionally with top pair etc., but this is no matter what your image is. furthermore, solid tags will raise/3bet pf so you're playing bad cards hoping to get lucky. playing Q3 and stuff hardly ever flops anything good. So you're saying you play good post flop, not moving allin with top pair etc. but you'll probably lose a load of money (in the long run) before you flop anything better with those cards

thizzSantaCruz

01-31-2008, 07:20 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

he will slowly leak money pf to good tags who understand his range.

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

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