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($23 husng) 33 faces AI

  
 
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revolvingiris
Old 03-19-2010, 07:57 AM     Post subject: ($23 husng) 33 faces AI #1 (permalink)  
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I know the HU forum is normally packed with higher stakes so if this should be somewhere else please feel free to move it.

I raised every button since the beginning of this match. Villain figured that out and started to 3bet me a little bit. I've seen villain bluff turn and river (almost psb) once but the match lasted only 10 hands. This was also the 3rd time villain shoved over my button raise.

I felt this shove could have been decently light given how aggressive I was. I figured a range of: QQ-22,A5s+,KTs+,QTs+,A8o+,KTo+,QJo...I removed AA, KK from villains range because I felt like they would have tried to trap me and extract more value with those hands.

The value on this is super thin...I need to be a 42.6% fav to win the hand cEV wise...I ran ICM and think I need to be 50% to make this call but couldn't figure out the number exactly.

Edit: I think I just realized that dealing with husng; cEV=ICM.
ICM
Hero Action:
Fold: 1830, 1830/3000= .61 (.61*44=26.84)
Call and win: 44
Call and lose: 960/3000= .32 (.32*44=14.08)
equation: (26.84-14.08)/(44-14.08) = 42.6%

cEV
1170/870=1.344
1/(1+1.344)
=42.6%


Hand 0: 44.776% { 33 }
Hand 1: 55.224% { QQ-22, A5s+, KTs+, QTs+, A8o+, KTo+, QJo }


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 23 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) (t1980)
BB (t1020)

Hero's M: 26.40

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 3
Hero bets t150, BB raises to t1020 (All-In), Hero calls t870

Flop: (t2040) 7, 10, 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2040) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2040) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2040

Results below:
Hero had 3, 3 (one pair, threes).
BB had A, 6 (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won t2040

I felt when I was making the decision to call or not I was heavily weighing the fact that I could probably grind this player down vs taking this thin gamble. Villain was allowing me to take pots away post flop decently easy. Is this something I should be considering when dealing with HU? I'm new to these so am learning some of the basics.
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dranger7070
Old 03-19-2010, 08:11 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If you feel you have a greater edge postflop/playing normally vs a villain vs taking a slightly +EV play vs him, just let the hand go. If your edge is as big as you think, you should have no problem dispatching him in a spot where your edge is far greater than a coinflip.
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Figment
Old 03-19-2010, 04:33 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I'd fold to his shove, at best you're facing two overs, at worst you're drawing to 2 outs. If you have a significant edge and a 2:1 chip lead, this is a hand I would let go and look for a better spot.
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revolvingiris
Old 03-19-2010, 06:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Yeah, it feels weird coming from MTTs where you take EVERY edge you can get.

Another, more specific difference:

Hand 0: 43.202% { 33 }
Hand 1: 56.798% { 22+, A5s+, KTs+, QJs, A7o+, KJo+ }

There is not much difference between this range and the range in OP. My analysis could have been completely off and this villain could have basically just used Nash. I can already tell that I am going to have to get better at placing people on ranges vs when playing MTTs (specifically 180s).

Anyone know of some decent range exercises ?
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Figment
Old 03-19-2010, 09:16 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Don't know of any exercises, but I tend to not take coin flip situations unless I have a strong belief I have at least one of their cards covered, such as 10 10 vs A9. Since I play better than most opponents at my level, I try to minimize the variance I have with situations like these. Only way I'd make this move is if his hand had a 2 in it and he showed it to me haha.
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Figment
Old 03-19-2010, 09:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 I also take the flip whenever I have 77 or better because there are several opponents (like you did here) that will take a shove chance with a lower pair than 7s. With 3s it's just too hard to be a strong favorite to be worthwhile to minimize your edge like this.
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Jack Sawyer
Old 03-20-2010, 09:32 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Be adequately rolled and you can take pretty much all coinflips you want.

Also, on a pre all-in with such a low pair, you are flipping pretty close to 90% of the time. The other 9.5 you are dominated. The resting 0.5%, opponent has 22.

Percentages may be somewhat off but you get the pint.
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revolvingiris
Old 03-20-2010, 05:26 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Yeah I am never expecting to dominate when I make this call. I mean in a MTT you snap take this almost every time but the payout structure is different there obv...I'm also pretty sure against some villains your edge is going to be so small that this type of line would be perfectly acceptable. This players wasn't one of them which is why I posted.

I also feel like you could probably graph your "risk/reward" vs your edge on villain. Instinctively, it seems that as your edge on villain decreases the amount of smaller edges you take must increase. Maybe thats pretty obvious to a lot of players. However, I think its pretty useful when trying to determine how to apply certain ranges.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-28-2010, 07:56 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 It's actually good to have a limping range when the stacks are this low and this would be a good candidate. Also i'd minraise if i was raising. You gotta call once he shoves your pot odds are way too good.
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revolvingiris
Old 04-06-2010, 12:30 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbr2intheWorld View Post
It's actually good to have a limping range when the stacks are this low and this would be a good candidate. Also i'd minraise if i was raising. You gotta call once he shoves your pot odds are way too good.
This is interesting. I would think that with a 20bb effective stack we wouldn't want to limp. Or are you basically saying that we would want to raise big hands/hands we fold to 3bet and then limp/fold the rest?

If using ISF therom as an example: Raise A+C range, limp B range, fold rest.

Also is min-raising kind of the standard? I usually start every match by 2.5x until I figure out what type of villain I am facing.

If tight: minraise a ton of hands
If loose: 3x but more selective
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-13-2010, 11:05 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 The thing is with HU and shallow stacks you kind of have to throw your basic understanding of isf theorem out the window. Ranges are just wayyy to wide to be thinking about the nuts too much.

When i have a stack like this i like to limp a polarized range actually. Either really weak or really strong (or a small pair). If they keep raising you just limp strong and shove over. I bet you'll find that the player will let you see some flops though and raise/call hands like k9o when they really shouldnt be.
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