IMPORTANT: Ultimate Bet Superuser Scandal Update

**Jibalob** · 07-15-2008 06:20 PM

Shit is REALLY hitting the fan now, to the point where personal threats are being made to people who have helped bring the whole mess to the public eye and various webpages/news articles/ forum posters seem to be dissappearing from existence. The whole scandal is unravelling at a very fast pace and goes far deeper than anyone had previously imagined.

I urge anyone playing on UB, AP or Vegas 24 to withdraw all funds immediately. It would also be nice to see FTR remove their affiliate links as it is crystal clear that these are not people you want to be doing business with.

Here is a link to the most uptodate thread on the matter: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=248884

Most recent set of Cliffnotes originally psted by youmorons of 2+2 (alot has happened since these cliffnotes were typed but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sift through that thread picking out the relevant information) :

Here is a very short cliffnote of cliffnote summary for those of us who are time-challenged. What follows will be enough for the vast public (even non-poker people) who just want to know what happened. For details, read the entire thread and/or sort through the threads to selectively digest parts which you are interested in. Again, below is the summary of all summaries and (warning) it is short, leaving out details that others in the forum can provide or point you toward.

#1 – A popular online poker site, Ultimate Bet, discovered suspicious activity within its poker site through a combination of internal discovery and tips from poker players.

#2 – Ultimate Bet (herein “UB”) issued a press release announcing that several player accounts were closed as a result of their investigation into the manner. UB called these accounts “superuser” accounts and gave one such account a name – “NioNio.”

#3 – UB publicly stated the method through which the NioNio account (and other accounts involved) practiced unfair play was by gaining access to players’ hole cards. This was possible, UB stated in a press release, through a hole in their underlying software – namely, the audit system functionality built-in to the overall system was misused or abused. UB hired a third party consultancy to investigate. Many people believed that the issue would end there. Initial money refunds were made by UB to players who had lost money to the acknowledged superuser accounts.

#4 – Two unexpected events would draw further attention from the poker community and thus, lead to heightened scrutiny. First, UB stepped up its PR (public relations) efforts to quell or mitigate the damage to its reputation and perception of both cover up and rigged playing environment. Second, an anonymous person posted on a popular poker community forum (2+2) claiming to be a UB employee. These posts (by handle “brainwashdodo”) ignited a firestorm of interest.

#5 – brainwashdodo’s accusations that UB insiders were involved were thinly veiled but for the most part, he/she leaked account data which no one outside of UB’s employment should be able to access. Much of the data revolved around account transactions of suspected “superuser” accounts. It also included movement of money to/from “superuser” accounts and UB account of popular t.v. poker players which aroused even more interest and no shortage of semi-hysteria.This gave brainwashdodo some benefit of doubt and some credibility.

#6 – Poker community at 2+2 began to rigorously dissect the leaked information from brainwashdodo. Further, players began investigating other aspects of the situation such as : a) UB ownership history, b) UB software development and programmers involved, c) statistical histories relating to publicly disclosed superuser accounts, and d) anomalies pertaining to other past and current UB player accounts.

#7 – UB players began to send inquiries into UB about other player accounts believed to have statistically suspicious play and win patterns. Sure enough, UB confirmed many of these submissions. UB would later issue a follow up press release announcing additional superuser account names. With each new superuser account revealed, some I the poker community focused on the expanding refund pool but almost all players would hunker down and focus on the real question … “Who is behind the cheating? And what are the specific implications and broader ramifications?

#8 – UB steps up its PR by deploying its longtime spokesperson Annie Duke to conduct interviews. UB’s position and messages become routinely consistent: all of today’s problems are a consequence of yesterday’s ownership and their blunders. The “new” ownership is working to sort through it all. Again, the PR (as before) seems to have drawn more suspicion and scrutiny to the matter then deflect it. Now, the poker community gets even deeper into its investigation of the ownership structure (it seems to hold the golden keys to everything and provides all answers) AND catching the bad guys (vs. a shared focus on unearthing more and more accounts for the short term gain of cash refunds). The 2+2 community’s threads begin to reflect a sentiment of vigilance, vengeance, ad justice.

#9 – Meanwhile, poker community continues to analyze all of the suspicious accounts. Nat Arem, central to outing the owner of Absolute Poker who cheated his customers out of millions, is again at the center of the efforts to unearth the truth. Nat and rest of gang begin to hone I on a handful of publicly outed superuser accounts. The trail of evidence leads them to a groundbreaking finding!

#10 – The superuser account at the heart of this hub-and-spoke chain of accounts involved in cheating belong to none other than UB owner and poker pro Russ Hamilton. The hard evidence was obtained through UB account records, addresses, and property records. It is discovered that Russ is not acting alone. He has conspirators. Poker community is now following the trails of evidence to identify those conspirators.

There is where things have been left off.

A lot of open questions still remain but many believe that they will all come to light in due time. The investigation is more in-depth and faster than ever now. So, by the time you read this it will already be outdated.

Here are some of those open questions posed in the forums at random times:
Q: Who is Russ Hamilton’s partners in crime?
Q: What is the current UB ownership structure?Q: How extensive and deep is the UB software vulnerability? (note: This is relevant as the underlying software is used in a host of their poker sites in a licensee/licensor model of delivery)
Q: How much total money has been siphoned off the poker public by these crooks?
Q: What are the legal recourse available and should players even seek legal recourse? Could they? Looks like there is recent precedence of racketeering, money laudering, and tax evasion charges with racketeering being the one that sticks but it is all conjecture at this point due to the ext question which is --
Q: Who do we report this evidence backed crime to? FBI? IRS? State AGs? Maistream media? Grassroots outing campaign?
Q: What role did Freddy Deeb, Phil Helmuth, and Annie Duke have? (as of now, there is no determination until more data is discovered)
Q: Is Russ a limb or the head of this ring of fraud or racket? Is he the mastermind or the puppet?
Q: What does this mean for other, larger poker sites that essentially operate under the same rules (that is, not much rules)?
Q: Are the public faces like Annie Duke and Howard Lederer going to “spin” this around to make a case for the regulated, legalization of online poker and in so doing evade the real question of “are YOU directly or indirectly involved in this scandal?” Can they continue on as self-appointed ambassadors of poker and de facto self-appointed representatives of player rights when they are sitting on both sides of the fence? No one has accused either of them formally yet but the perception problem alone brings problems of their visible roles.

The list of questions fall off the page and fill a book.

To end: More is believed to be discovered. All are staying tuned for those breaking news as real life really indeed is better than fiction.

I'm sure I screwed this up as it's based on recall of reading the thread. Save your attacks if I made mistakes and just focus on correctig any. I just figured it was better to summarize than not.

**badgers** · 07-15-2008 07:10 PM

this is not good for online poker

**badgers** · 07-15-2008 07:20 PM

jesus christ just read a lot of the thread and it's a fucking disgrace. Nat getting threatened is just ridiculous....

people make me sick

**davegrohl** · 07-15-2008 07:21 PM

Wow. Crazy. Ty for the link Jib

**RML604** · 07-15-2008 08:10 PM

If anyone listens to the 2 + 2 pokercast, they have touched on this before, although obviously this appears to be new information. Hopefully a new podcast from them will come out soon (They typically come out Tueday(today) mornings), and they'll touch on this.

If you don't listen to it, you should give it a go, it's pretty interesting/entertaining for the most part.

**jyms** · 07-15-2008 09:14 PM

As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2.

It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them.

**Jibalob** · 07-15-2008 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by jyms

As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2.

It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them.

I wholeheartedly agree.....

Unfortunately it also shows that you have absolutely no idea what kind of people you are dealing with when you deposit onto a poker-room (there are 1 or 2 exceptions to this) and what they may be doing with your money.

**bjsaust** · 07-16-2008 03:29 AM

The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is).

**RML604** · 07-16-2008 02:39 PM

I just saw that the 2+2 pokercast cameout for this week, and part of the description is "Serge Ravitch, professional poker player and former lawyer is also featured on the program discussing some recent developments in the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal. "

I suggest you check it out if you're interested in the scandal, if you go to the 2+2 website you can't miss the link on the main page.

**RML604** · 07-16-2008 04:07 PM

Just a quick update, I am listening to the show right now and they're in the middle of talking about the scandal and it is very interesting. I guess Serge is going to be on 60 minutes in a month for an online poker piece that they are doing. He seems to be very knowledgeable about the whole thing. It's a very interesting listen, so definitely check it out if you're interested in this.

**badgers** · 07-16-2008 11:22 PM

ridic good cliffnotes

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=251207

**Hawk** · 07-17-2008 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by bjsaust

The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is).

That is one of two outcomes I can see.

The other is that this all points out how important it is for these sites to be regulated and leads to something that will benefit all of us.

**Warpe** · 07-17-2008 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by badgers

ridic good cliffnotes

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=251207

great link (and a locked sticky so the thread won't asplode)

**jyms** · 07-17-2008 04:21 AM

Agreed Warpe.

I'm going to sticky this thread for now and then the link for a bit if or when this quiets down at all

**Taxi** · 07-17-2008 09:35 PM

This whole thing makes me feel all sick and stuff.
UB are going to get away with this just as AP did.

FTR please please please take your UB and AP links off this site, it makes you look so bad

**FlyingSaucy** · 07-17-2008 10:41 PM

Withdrawl in full submitted.

**triumphant cracker** · 11-24-2008 08:15 PM

http://www.pokerblog.com/29-septembe...al-update.html

MOHAWK TERRITORY OF KAHNAWAKE – September 29, 2008) Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission ("KGC") Chairman Dean Montour today announced the initial findings of the audit conducted on licensee Ultimate Bet, as well as the sanctions to be imposed.

According to KGC Chairman Montour, the Commission has reviewed the information provided to it over the past months from Frank Catania of Catania Gaming Consultants of New Jersey; Gaming Associates, an Australian game testing company; and the permit holder. Chairman Montour said, "The Commissioners have made several findings of fact with regard to the cheating that occurred on the Ultimate Bet web site that included the identification of some of the individuals responsible for these incidents as well other significant violations of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations."

The Commission found clear and convincing evidence to support the conclusion that between the approximate dates of May 2004 to January 2008, Russell Hamilton, an individual associated with Ultimate Bet's affiliate program, was the main person responsible for and benefiting from the multiple cheating incidents. Furthermore, the KGC is currently in contact with the appropriate law enforcement agencies and intends to fully cooperate in the prosecution of all individuals involved in the UB cheating incidents.

Mr. Catania states,

"My intention is to provide further information as it is uncovered, although the information already submitted to the KGC relating to Ultimate Bet warrants the KGC taking the actions it has today. Any further evidence uncovered with regard to cheating, withholding or destroying records in our continuing investigation will be reported to the KGC and the proper agency for appropriate action."

.
As a result of the KGC's findings of fact, the Commission called a special meeting, at which time it was unanimously decided to impose the following sanctions against Ultimate Bet:

1. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it shall, under the close supervision of the KGC, its employees and agents, commence refunding all players accounts found to have been adversely affected by the cheating of individuals under the control and supervision of the licensee. It is estimated that Ultimate Bet has to date reimbursed $6.1 million USD to players' accounts found to have been adversely impacted by the cheating activity

2. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it is to remove any and all persons deemed as "unsuitable" by the KGC from all involvement with the company, which shall include all levels of ownership, management and operation. Ultimate Bet during that time period until November 3, 2008 is required to continue to provide complete details of all day-to-day operations of the company. These shall include financial as well as daily gaming records to Frank Catania and or his assigns. It is anticipated that this action will provide full disclosure and prevent any further improprieties or wrongdoing from occurring while ensuring that the public is being offered fair and honest games and all player monies will be protected.

3. Ultimate Bet's control system as defined in section 9 of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations has been modified to prevent any further incidents of cheating or related improprieties.

4. Ultimate Bet will not delete or modify any logs including but not limited to web logs and game logs as required by the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations and will continue to have those logs immediately available for inspection by the KGC or its agents.

5. Ultimate Bet shall immediately pay a fine of $1.5 Million USD to the KGC for its failure to implement and enforce measures to prohibit and detect fraudulent activities.

6. Ultimate Bet's failure to comply fully with these measures will result in the immediate revocation of its KGC gaming permit.

Murray Marshall
Senior Advisor
Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission

**ChezJ** · 12-01-2008 11:51 PM

Check out yesterday's report on "60 Minutes" here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120100764.html

Also read the accompanying Washington Post articles linked at that page. This was on the front page on Sunday and Monday.

ChezJ

**Kalindee23** · 02-07-2009 01:08 AM

Oh, WOW!!!! I play on UB... uh I so pass on ever playing there again

**Ale0811177** · 02-14-2009 06:33 PM

Thats incredible that this history is still running around...
I hope that the good poker sites are not in the same condition, somethimes u can think it... but until now i trust...

**chukpuf** · 03-09-2009 08:00 PM

im read and thanks u very much for posted that interesthing to know

Sweril · 03-14-2009 06:42 PM

And.... is there any organization checking the other online poker rooms???? you know, I like to play poker and I'm a little beat scare now... god!! ...jeje

**soreflo** · 03-22-2009 03:09 PM

this is not good for online poker

**adam.poker** · 05-28-2009 06:52 PM

really bad thing mate, i enjoyed playing online poker.
but after these incident, i take my steps slowly after gaining whole info about the site.

**kardmania** · 06-14-2009 04:29 PM

I have to wonder to what extent cheating occurs at all venues.

AP/UB were caught. The smarter perps I would guess are still operating and doing so without being noticed. With the ever evolving nature of malware and hacking, the smarter operatiors are possibly still taking their rake.

The next evolution would say you need to play at brick and mortar facilities. If you think that grifters and card mechanics are Hollywood creations I have to burst your bubble.

Both venues often employ shills to build the house take and this is considered to be legal.

As far as regulatiors look at the gret job they have done protecting us from Madoff and Wall Street.

**AlKo4g7iC** · 06-18-2009 01:55 PM

wow i do play at UB i guess ill avoid that site all together thanks for all the info

**heatherbrianne1** · 06-22-2009 02:30 AM

This is not good at all.. Hope it gets all sorted out!.. Wish poker was what it used to be, Before all the drama

**peacenotwar** · 07-11-2009 01:01 PM

so sick....

**grilldoggy** · 07-17-2009 03:48 PM

It's good to see this issue in discussion a year later. You know cheating is going on to this day, somewhere - the only question is where and when will the next online poker scandal happen?

**ThisFord** · 08-21-2009 09:24 PM

I hope this never happens anywhere else...

**poker2poker** · 08-28-2009 07:39 AM

that's ridiculous, most of the times i will be playing online ,
but after this, i will be careful
thanks for sharing !

**atikabo** · 09-21-2009 01:26 PM

Thanks for the info, I"ve been playing in UB for quite sometime and I have"nt notice anything suspicious about it. Better check it out and if worst comes to worst, I will withdraw my funds in that site.

**flajules2004** · 03-10-2011 06:42 PM

Thanks for the great info on the sites...I think I will wait a little while until I play on either of them

**ChezJ** · 03-28-2011 02:26 AM

a little while? these posts are from 2-3 years ago. but thanks for contributing.

**Shotglass** · 03-28-2011 02:10 PM

Candidate for bump of the year, or does the porn links still have first place?
I vote porn. Hell, I always vote porn

07-15-2008 06:20 PM #1
Jibalob View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 615 Location Out of my roll	IMPORTANT: Ultimate Bet Superuser Scandal Update Shit is REALLY hitting the fan now, to the point where personal threats are being made to people who have helped bring the whole mess to the public eye and various webpages/news articles/ forum posters seem to be dissappearing from existence. The whole scandal is unravelling at a very fast pace and goes far deeper than anyone had previously imagined. I urge anyone playing on UB, AP or Vegas 24 to withdraw all funds immediately. It would also be nice to see FTR remove their affiliate links as it is crystal clear that these are not people you want to be doing business with. Here is a link to the most uptodate thread on the matter: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=248884 Most recent set of Cliffnotes originally psted by youmorons of 2+2 (alot has happened since these cliffnotes were typed but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sift through that thread picking out the relevant information) : Here is a very short cliffnote of cliffnote summary for those of us who are time-challenged. What follows will be enough for the vast public (even non-poker people) who just want to know what happened. For details, read the entire thread and/or sort through the threads to selectively digest parts which you are interested in. Again, below is the summary of all summaries and (warning) it is short, leaving out details that others in the forum can provide or point you toward. #1 – A popular online poker site, Ultimate Bet, discovered suspicious activity within its poker site through a combination of internal discovery and tips from poker players. #2 – Ultimate Bet (herein “UB”) issued a press release announcing that several player accounts were closed as a result of their investigation into the manner. UB called these accounts “superuser” accounts and gave one such account a name – “NioNio.” #3 – UB publicly stated the method through which the NioNio account (and other accounts involved) practiced unfair play was by gaining access to players’ hole cards. This was possible, UB stated in a press release, through a hole in their underlying software – namely, the audit system functionality built-in to the overall system was misused or abused. UB hired a third party consultancy to investigate. Many people believed that the issue would end there. Initial money refunds were made by UB to players who had lost money to the acknowledged superuser accounts. #4 – Two unexpected events would draw further attention from the poker community and thus, lead to heightened scrutiny. First, UB stepped up its PR (public relations) efforts to quell or mitigate the damage to its reputation and perception of both cover up and rigged playing environment. Second, an anonymous person posted on a popular poker community forum (2+2) claiming to be a UB employee. These posts (by handle “brainwashdodo”) ignited a firestorm of interest. #5 – brainwashdodo’s accusations that UB insiders were involved were thinly veiled but for the most part, he/she leaked account data which no one outside of UB’s employment should be able to access. Much of the data revolved around account transactions of suspected “superuser” accounts. It also included movement of money to/from “superuser” accounts and UB account of popular t.v. poker players which aroused even more interest and no shortage of semi-hysteria.This gave brainwashdodo some benefit of doubt and some credibility. #6 – Poker community at 2+2 began to rigorously dissect the leaked information from brainwashdodo. Further, players began investigating other aspects of the situation such as : a) UB ownership history, b) UB software development and programmers involved, c) statistical histories relating to publicly disclosed superuser accounts, and d) anomalies pertaining to other past and current UB player accounts. #7 – UB players began to send inquiries into UB about other player accounts believed to have statistically suspicious play and win patterns. Sure enough, UB confirmed many of these submissions. UB would later issue a follow up press release announcing additional superuser account names. With each new superuser account revealed, some I the poker community focused on the expanding refund pool but almost all players would hunker down and focus on the real question … “Who is behind the cheating? And what are the specific implications and broader ramifications? #8 – UB steps up its PR by deploying its longtime spokesperson Annie Duke to conduct interviews. UB’s position and messages become routinely consistent: all of today’s problems are a consequence of yesterday’s ownership and their blunders. The “new” ownership is working to sort through it all. Again, the PR (as before) seems to have drawn more suspicion and scrutiny to the matter then deflect it. Now, the poker community gets even deeper into its investigation of the ownership structure (it seems to hold the golden keys to everything and provides all answers) AND catching the bad guys (vs. a shared focus on unearthing more and more accounts for the short term gain of cash refunds). The 2+2 community’s threads begin to reflect a sentiment of vigilance, vengeance, ad justice. #9 – Meanwhile, poker community continues to analyze all of the suspicious accounts. Nat Arem, central to outing the owner of Absolute Poker who cheated his customers out of millions, is again at the center of the efforts to unearth the truth. Nat and rest of gang begin to hone I on a handful of publicly outed superuser accounts. The trail of evidence leads them to a groundbreaking finding! #10 – The superuser account at the heart of this hub-and-spoke chain of accounts involved in cheating belong to none other than UB owner and poker pro Russ Hamilton. The hard evidence was obtained through UB account records, addresses, and property records. It is discovered that Russ is not acting alone. He has conspirators. Poker community is now following the trails of evidence to identify those conspirators. There is where things have been left off. A lot of open questions still remain but many believe that they will all come to light in due time. The investigation is more in-depth and faster than ever now. So, by the time you read this it will already be outdated. Here are some of those open questions posed in the forums at random times: Q: Who is Russ Hamilton’s partners in crime? Q: What is the current UB ownership structure?Q: How extensive and deep is the UB software vulnerability? (note: This is relevant as the underlying software is used in a host of their poker sites in a licensee/licensor model of delivery) Q: How much total money has been siphoned off the poker public by these crooks? Q: What are the legal recourse available and should players even seek legal recourse? Could they? Looks like there is recent precedence of racketeering, money laudering, and tax evasion charges with racketeering being the one that sticks but it is all conjecture at this point due to the ext question which is -- Q: Who do we report this evidence backed crime to? FBI? IRS? State AGs? Maistream media? Grassroots outing campaign? Q: What role did Freddy Deeb, Phil Helmuth, and Annie Duke have? (as of now, there is no determination until more data is discovered) Q: Is Russ a limb or the head of this ring of fraud or racket? Is he the mastermind or the puppet? Q: What does this mean for other, larger poker sites that essentially operate under the same rules (that is, not much rules)? Q: Are the public faces like Annie Duke and Howard Lederer going to “spin” this around to make a case for the regulated, legalization of online poker and in so doing evade the real question of “are YOU directly or indirectly involved in this scandal?” Can they continue on as self-appointed ambassadors of poker and de facto self-appointed representatives of player rights when they are sitting on both sides of the fence? No one has accused either of them formally yet but the perception problem alone brings problems of their visible roles. The list of questions fall off the page and fill a book. To end: More is believed to be discovered. All are staying tuned for those breaking news as real life really indeed is better than fiction. I'm sure I screwed this up as it's based on recall of reading the thread. Save your attacks if I made mistakes and just focus on correctig any. I just figured it was better to summarize than not.
	PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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07-15-2008 07:10 PM #2
badgers View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 4,413 Location Spewing	this is not good for online poker
	3k post - Return of the blog!
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07-15-2008 07:20 PM #3
badgers View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 4,413 Location Spewing	jesus christ just read a lot of the thread and it's a fucking disgrace. Nat getting threatened is just ridiculous.... people make me sick
	3k post - Return of the blog!
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07-15-2008 07:21 PM #4
davegrohl View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2008 Posts 15	Wow. Crazy. Ty for the link Jib

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07-15-2008 08:10 PM #5
RML604 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2008 Posts 174	If anyone listens to the 2 + 2 pokercast, they have touched on this before, although obviously this appears to be new information. Hopefully a new podcast from them will come out soon (They typically come out Tueday(today) mornings), and they'll touch on this. If you don't listen to it, you should give it a go, it's pretty interesting/entertaining for the most part.

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IMPORTANT: Ultimate Bet Superuser Scandal Update

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IMPORTANT: Ultimate Bet Superuser Scandal Update

wow great info

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07-15-2008 09:14 PM #6
jyms View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message TILTING MOD Join Date Feb 2006 Posts 9,355	As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2. It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them.
	YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]
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07-15-2008 09:55 PM #7
Jibalob View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 615 Location Out of my roll	Originally Posted by jyms As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2. It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them. I wholeheartedly agree..... Unfortunately it also shows that you have absolutely no idea what kind of people you are dealing with when you deposit onto a poker-room (there are 1 or 2 exceptions to this) and what they may be doing with your money.
	PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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07-16-2008 03:29 AM #8
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is).
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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07-16-2008 02:39 PM #9
RML604 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2008 Posts 174	I just saw that the 2+2 pokercast cameout for this week, and part of the description is "Serge Ravitch, professional poker player and former lawyer is also featured on the program discussing some recent developments in the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal. " I suggest you check it out if you're interested in the scandal, if you go to the 2+2 website you can't miss the link on the main page.

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07-16-2008 04:07 PM #10
RML604 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2008 Posts 174	Just a quick update, I am listening to the show right now and they're in the middle of talking about the scandal and it is very interesting. I guess Serge is going to be on 60 minutes in a month for an online poker piece that they are doing. He seems to be very knowledgeable about the whole thing. It's a very interesting listen, so definitely check it out if you're interested in this.

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07-16-2008 11:22 PM #11
badgers View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 4,413 Location Spewing	ridic good cliffnotes http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=251207
	3k post - Return of the blog!
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07-17-2008 03:27 AM #12
Hawk View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2007 Posts 1,627	Originally Posted by bjsaust The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is). That is one of two outcomes I can see. The other is that this all points out how important it is for these sites to be regulated and leads to something that will benefit all of us.

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07-17-2008 03:31 AM #13
Warpe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2005 Posts 9,004 Location Canuckistan	Originally Posted by badgers ridic good cliffnotes http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=251207 great link (and a locked sticky so the thread won't asplode)

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07-17-2008 04:21 AM #14
jyms View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message TILTING MOD Join Date Feb 2006 Posts 9,355	Agreed Warpe. I'm going to sticky this thread for now and then the link for a bit if or when this quiets down at all
	YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]
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07-17-2008 09:35 PM #15
Taxi View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 267 Location Lincoln, UK	This whole thing makes me feel all sick and stuff. UB are going to get away with this just as AP did. FTR please please please take your UB and AP links off this site, it makes you look so bad

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07-17-2008 10:41 PM #16
FlyingSaucy View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,649 Location Watching the kids	Withdrawl in full submitted.

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11-24-2008 08:15 PM #17
triumphant cracker View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Aug 2008 Posts 1,386 Location IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!!	http://www.pokerblog.com/29-septembe...al-update.html MOHAWK TERRITORY OF KAHNAWAKE – September 29, 2008) Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission ("KGC") Chairman Dean Montour today announced the initial findings of the audit conducted on licensee Ultimate Bet, as well as the sanctions to be imposed. According to KGC Chairman Montour, the Commission has reviewed the information provided to it over the past months from Frank Catania of Catania Gaming Consultants of New Jersey; Gaming Associates, an Australian game testing company; and the permit holder. Chairman Montour said, "The Commissioners have made several findings of fact with regard to the cheating that occurred on the Ultimate Bet web site that included the identification of some of the individuals responsible for these incidents as well other significant violations of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations." The Commission found clear and convincing evidence to support the conclusion that between the approximate dates of May 2004 to January 2008, Russell Hamilton, an individual associated with Ultimate Bet's affiliate program, was the main person responsible for and benefiting from the multiple cheating incidents. Furthermore, the KGC is currently in contact with the appropriate law enforcement agencies and intends to fully cooperate in the prosecution of all individuals involved in the UB cheating incidents. Mr. Catania states, "My intention is to provide further information as it is uncovered, although the information already submitted to the KGC relating to Ultimate Bet warrants the KGC taking the actions it has today. Any further evidence uncovered with regard to cheating, withholding or destroying records in our continuing investigation will be reported to the KGC and the proper agency for appropriate action." . As a result of the KGC's findings of fact, the Commission called a special meeting, at which time it was unanimously decided to impose the following sanctions against Ultimate Bet: 1. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it shall, under the close supervision of the KGC, its employees and agents, commence refunding all players accounts found to have been adversely affected by the cheating of individuals under the control and supervision of the licensee. It is estimated that Ultimate Bet has to date reimbursed $6.1 million USD to players' accounts found to have been adversely impacted by the cheating activity 2. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it is to remove any and all persons deemed as "unsuitable" by the KGC from all involvement with the company, which shall include all levels of ownership, management and operation. Ultimate Bet during that time period until November 3, 2008 is required to continue to provide complete details of all day-to-day operations of the company. These shall include financial as well as daily gaming records to Frank Catania and or his assigns. It is anticipated that this action will provide full disclosure and prevent any further improprieties or wrongdoing from occurring while ensuring that the public is being offered fair and honest games and all player monies will be protected. 3. Ultimate Bet's control system as defined in section 9 of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations has been modified to prevent any further incidents of cheating or related improprieties. 4. Ultimate Bet will not delete or modify any logs including but not limited to web logs and game logs as required by the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations and will continue to have those logs immediately available for inspection by the KGC or its agents. 5. Ultimate Bet shall immediately pay a fine of $1.5 Million USD to the KGC for its failure to implement and enforce measures to prohibit and detect fraudulent activities. 6. Ultimate Bet's failure to comply fully with these measures will result in the immediate revocation of its KGC gaming permit. Murray Marshall Senior Advisor Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission

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12-01-2008 11:51 PM #18
ChezJ View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,291 Location Washington, D.C.	Check out yesterday's report on "60 Minutes" here http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120100764.html Also read the accompanying Washington Post articles linked at that page. This was on the front page on Sunday and Monday. ChezJ

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02-07-2009 01:08 AM #19
Kalindee23 View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Jan 2009 Posts 8 Location Bonners ferry Idaho	Oh, WOW!!!! I play on UB... uh I so pass on ever playing there again

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02-14-2009 06:33 PM #20
Ale0811177 View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 12 Location Torino Italy	Thats incredible that this history is still running around... I hope that the good poker sites are not in the same condition, somethimes u can think it... but until now i trust...

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03-09-2009 08:00 PM #21
chukpuf View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Jan 2009 Posts 2	wow great info im read and thanks u very much for posted that interesthing to know

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03-14-2009 06:42 PM #22
Sweril Guest	And.... is there any organization checking the other online poker rooms???? you know, I like to play poker and I'm a little beat scare now... god!! ...jeje

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03-22-2009 03:09 PM #23
soreflo View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Mar 2009 Posts 5	this is not good for online poker

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05-28-2009 06:52 PM #24
adam.poker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2009 Posts 18 Location US	really bad thing mate, i enjoyed playing online poker. but after these incident, i take my steps slowly after gaining whole info about the site.

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06-14-2009 04:29 PM #25
kardmania View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 82	I have to wonder to what extent cheating occurs at all venues. AP/UB were caught. The smarter perps I would guess are still operating and doing so without being noticed. With the ever evolving nature of malware and hacking, the smarter operatiors are possibly still taking their rake. The next evolution would say you need to play at brick and mortar facilities. If you think that grifters and card mechanics are Hollywood creations I have to burst your bubble. Both venues often employ shills to build the house take and this is considered to be legal. As far as regulatiors look at the gret job they have done protecting us from Madoff and Wall Street.

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06-18-2009 01:55 PM #26
AlKo4g7iC View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2009 Posts 33 Location Toronto, Ontario , Canada	wow i do play at UB i guess ill avoid that site all together thanks for all the info
	KRS ONE -- iLogiC -- knowledge reigns supreme -- **** the normal
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06-22-2009 02:30 AM #27
heatherbrianne1 View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Jun 2009 Posts 8	This is not good at all.. Hope it gets all sorted out!.. Wish poker was what it used to be, Before all the drama

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07-11-2009 01:01 PM #28
peacenotwar View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2009 Posts 15	so sick....

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07-17-2009 03:48 PM #29
grilldoggy View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 10 Location North America	It's good to see this issue in discussion a year later. You know cheating is going on to this day, somewhere - the only question is where and when will the next online poker scandal happen?

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08-21-2009 09:24 PM #30
ThisFord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2009 Posts 18 Location Norfolk, VA	I hope this never happens anywhere else...

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08-28-2009 07:39 AM #31
poker2poker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2009 Posts 12	that's ridiculous, most of the times i will be playing online , but after this, i will be careful thanks for sharing !

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09-21-2009 01:26 PM #32
atikabo View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2009 Posts 26 Location Philippines	Thanks for the info, I"ve been playing in UB for quite sometime and I have"nt notice anything suspicious about it. Better check it out and if worst comes to worst, I will withdraw my funds in that site.

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03-10-2011 06:42 PM #33
flajules2004 View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Mar 2011 Posts 2 Location US SUNNY SOUTH FLORIDA	Thanks for the great info on the sites...I think I will wait a little while until I play on either of them

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03-28-2011 02:26 AM #34
ChezJ View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,291 Location Washington, D.C.	a little while? these posts are from 2-3 years ago. but thanks for contributing.

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03-28-2011 02:10 PM #35
Shotglass View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2010 Posts 1,745 Location feelin' allright	Candidate for bump of the year, or does the porn links still have first place? I vote porn. Hell, I always vote porn
	Originally Posted by givememyleg i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
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