*** PokerStars VIP Rep thread ***

[Micro2Macro]

but you ran good and took their money, so whats the problem?

if you took a huge amount off them you may end up giving some of that back to help iron out this average payout you want calculated to every single player who played them.

[bikes]

but you ran good and took their money, so whats the problem?

if you took a huge amount off them you may end up giving some of that back to help iron out this average payout you want calculated to every single player who played them.

this.

so if you won a bunch of monies off them should you be forced to give it back?

[daven]

@ bikes/m2m, yep, you both make a good point. I merely want to know the position held by stars on this type of situation. Sure, i may be up against these players, but their cheating has cost me money.

Note the weird implications of a payout of confiscated balances that is not pro-rated by volume against the cheats. Imagine the perverse incentives in place if i find someone who is cheating, check and realise that I am up $ against them, choose not to report them but instead monitor how I am doing against that player - including doing way more messed up stuff against them cos I'm freerolling - and postpone reporting them until at any point I end up down $$ against them.

I'm really curious what stars' approach is in this type of situation. Hence the questions in my previous post in this thread.

[PokerStars VIP]

This is a good inquiry. I can assure you that funds seized from colluding accounts are used to reimburse players adversely affected. Daven and others have brought up some interesting points but unfortunately I'm unable to disclose the precise method we use to determine how funds are redistributed (I suppose you can get a broad idea of it based on Game Security's email to Daven).

Edit: I'm looking into whether there's any more info we can share with you guys on this...

Dylan

[OngBonga]

I would love to see some lower stakes HU tables.. I've never been one for the HU-SNG's so would love it if I could play 10NL and 25NL HU.. i'm sure people would be keen for 5 as well, though i think that and 2nl would be far too much of a crap shoot for my liking..

This, I'd really like to see some $2, $5 and $10 PLO HU rooms, and some $10 NLHE HU would be nice too.

[bikes]

rake trappppp

[OngBonga]

rake trappppp

Probably, but I'd expect to have a significant advantage over the average micro NLHEHU bonks, so I'd hope my winrate more than pays the extra rake I pay.

And as for PLOHU, I just wanna play some HU PLO, but I can't because I'm not rolled for it. Again, so long as I'm in profit, which I'd expect at $2 stakes, then I'm happy.

I don't give a crap about rake so long as I'm making money, the fish pay my rake, not me.

[PokerStars VIP]

Update on the seized funds from collusion. Yes, 100% of funds seized are distributed to players, and in some case we give extra funds to compensate players but as I suspected we do not disclose the method we use to allocate the funds.

I'll throw the low-stakes HU table suggestions to the Ring game guys and see if any interest comes back.

Dylan

[Rage2100]

Hi Dylan,

Just a minor point, but I think it may help out some players.

Imagine the screen being split into four quadrants; top left being quadrant 1, top right being quadrant 2, bottom left being quadrant 3, and bottom right being quadrant 4. If you have two tables stacked in each quadrant and save the layout, when you open the tables next time, they open in the following order, no matter what order you put them in the user.ini file:

Quadrant 1
Quadrant 1
Quadrant 2
Quadrant 2
Quadrant 3
Quadrant 3
Quadrant 4
Quadrant 4

I sometimes only open six tables and so end up with no table in quadrant 4. I can save another layout for six tables, but if I played 20 tables, I would end up with loads of different saved layouts. Could you add a checkbox so the tables open in the order they appear in the user.ini file?

I would really like the tables to open in the following order:

Quadrant 1
Quadrant 2
Quadrant 3
Quadrant 4
Quadrant 1
Quadrant 2
Quadrant 3
Quadrant 4

I've written a little AHK script to move my tables around the screen, and there are various other programs that will do this, but it would be nice if this was added to the Stars software.

[daven]

Update on the seized funds from collusion. Yes, 100% of funds seized are distributed to players, and in some case we give extra funds to compensate players but as I suspected we do not disclose the method we use to allocate the funds.

cheers Dylan. You are faster than poker stars support

I've added the elaboration from support below in case anyone is interested. I have italicised the part that i disagree with, just cos.

Thank you for your email, which has been escalated to me for response.

1 - are the account balances of these cheats confiscated by stars?

Yes, they were.

1a - in general, does stars confiscate the account balances of cheats who
have been caught?

In cases where confiscations are appropriate, yes we do. In this case it was appropriate.

2 - if so, what happens to the confiscated balances of cheating players?

Confiscated funds are used to compensate those that are harmed by collusion. In this particular case, the confiscated funds were insufficient to compensate players appropriately, so PokerStars contributed funds to the distribution pool from our own resources.

The fact that I am in profit against these players is irrelevant, their
very presence at the tables has cost me money.

In tournaments this would be more true than it is in ring games. In ring games every hand is a completely separate event, not having been affected by the hands before it, and not affecting the hands after it. Each hand needs to be weighed individually for effect, if any. This is what we did.

Harmed players were compensated.

[daven]

. If you have two tables stacked in each quadrant and save the layout, when you open the tables next time, they open in the following order, no matter what order you put them in the user.ini file:
.

what happens if you save the layout, then go to view->apply active layout ?

[Rage2100]

what happens if you save the layout, then go to view->apply active layout ?

Nothing!

I think this problem only occurs when you have more than one table in the exact same position. Stars seems to open all the tables at the one position before it moves on to the next position. This is ok if you always play the full amount of tables, but not ok if you decide to play less tables every once in a while.

[daven]

from 2p2, noting that many of the major cheat catches are by players rather than security

would be cool if stars had some kind of bounty for players that catch cheats

[Micro2Macro]

There are ways you could abuse the system by having a bounty if you knew the value of it. There are often 250k players playing poker at a time, not everyone can be monitored closely by pokerstars staff.

I think the entire poker community is just way too greedy and is always expecting a hand out for doing something that benefits the community as a whole. If you see a group of players whom you highly suspect are colluding, then the right thing to do is send an email to support outlining all the evidence that is relevant to the issue. It's ethical, and it helps maintain integrity with the games. It sets a good example to the rest of the poker community to aid pokerstars in policing the games, and overall should deter colluders if they know that other regs are being vigilant. The moment people start a trend where no one bothers to report these issues because they 'arent getting anything out of it' is when the system begins to collapse.

I imagine the player who posted that last sentence is a busto, lazy, ssnl grinder who just wants money to fall into his lap in the easiest way possible. You never, ever see hsnl players whining about not receiving rewards for catching players cheating, but that in a way is what separates the best from the rest. It's likely he was just trying to be creative in thinking of solutions, but if he thought about what he said he'd realize it makes no sense because it won't happen.

[daven]

There are ways you could abuse the system by having a bounty if you knew the value of it. There are often 250k players playing poker at a time, not everyone can be monitored closely by pokerstars staff.

I think the entire poker community is just way too greedy and is always expecting a hand out for doing something that benefits the community as a whole. If you see a group of players whom you highly suspect are colluding, then the right thing to do is send an email to support outlining all the evidence that is relevant to the issue. It's ethical, and it helps maintain integrity with the games. It sets a good example to the rest of the poker community to aid pokerstars in policing the games, and overall should deter colluders if they know that other regs are being vigilant. The moment people start a trend where no one bothers to report these issues because they 'arent getting anything out of it' is when the system begins to collapse.

I imagine the player who posted that last sentence is a busto, lazy, ssnl grinder who just wants money to fall into his lap in the easiest way possible. You never, ever see hsnl players whining about not receiving rewards for catching players cheating, but that in a way is what separates the best from the rest. It's likely he was just trying to be creative in thinking of solutions, but if he thought about what he said he'd realize it makes no sense because it won't happen.

good post

[Keith]

I think the entire poker community is just way too greedy and is always expecting a hand out for doing something that benefits the community as a whole. If you see a group of players whom you highly suspect are colluding, then the right thing to do is send an email to support outlining all the evidence that is relevant to the issue. It's ethical, and it helps maintain integrity with the games. It sets a good example to the rest of the poker community to aid pokerstars in policing the games, and overall should deter colluders if they know that other regs are being vigilant. The moment people start a trend where no one bothers to report these issues because they 'arent getting anything out of it' is when the system begins to collapse.

I think that you're being a bit harsh with that comment. Certainly sections of the community are too greedy , but to class the entire community as being too greedy to altruisticly benefit the whole community ignores the work put in by mods/admins of forums, better players responding to beginners hand history questions and individuals who try and help in cases of fraud/scams (like clamper at 2+2) etc.

[Micro2Macro]

Saying the entire community is greedy was an over-exaggeration. There are certainly a large amount of people in it though that are greedy, while another portion who are quite generous.

[PokerStars VIP]

Nothing!

I think this problem only occurs when you have more than one table in the exact same position. Stars seems to open all the tables at the one position before it moves on to the next position. This is ok if you always play the full amount of tables, but not ok if you decide to play less tables every once in a while.

I'll be passing your feedback regarding how the layouts are saved to the software team this week. It's appreciated and I'll let you know if they have any followup questions or a response to the issues you've run into.

Dylan

[daven]

so, if you need someone to work in stars security lol....
busted some more for you

First allow me to apologize for the delay in responding to your report. This particular case was quite involved and more time than usual was required for the review.

We have concluded that the play of 'xxxx' and 'xxxx' violated the integrity of our games. They have been informed that they are no longer welcome to play on our site.

In addition, we have 'rolled back' hands in which they won money unfairly and redistributed the funds to the players who were affected. Overall, you

[PokerStars VIP]

Nice one Inspector Daven!

[daven]

creditadjust transactions where stars sends you money from busted cheats count as deposits => no withdrawing funds for 48hrs. Seems a bit weird, and a pain cos i'm due to make my regular withdrawal, but instead it looks like I won't be able to do so until i get back from holiday.

[Keith]

How about a vip level boost for a month for Daven as a reward?

[PokerStars VIP]

creditadjust transactions where stars sends you money from busted cheats count as deposits => no withdrawing funds for 48hrs. Seems a bit weird, and a pain cos i'm due to make my regular withdrawal, but instead it looks like I won't be able to do so until i get back from holiday.

Hi Daven,

You can email support@pokerstars.com and they will immediately lift this restriction once they confirm that it was a credit given and not an actual deposit.

Dylan

[rpm]

yo dylan, now that we can choose to sit out from any given table or all tables, this hand or on our next big blind, via the session options box, i think it would be cool to have the option of getting rid of the "sit out next hand" and "sit out next big blind" tickboxes in the bottom left corner above the chat box. the less unnecessary clutter the better imo.

edit: as well as the "fold to any bet" tickbox. i understand there is no "fold to any bet" option in the session options box. but if it's not being used...

[Micro2Macro]

Is it possible to have every hand history for the past couple years emailed to me? Or how far can I request back hh's?

[DoubleJ]

yo dylan, now that we can choose to sit out from any given table or all tables, this hand or on our next big blind, via the session options box, i think it would be cool to have the option of getting rid of the "sit out next hand" and "sit out next big blind" tickboxes in the bottom left corner above the chat box. the less unnecessary clutter the better imo.

+1

Also, Dylan - i logged a 'bug' about the "sit out next big blind" function a while ago - essentially, I think it should be "sit out next blind". e.g. if you just wanna play your free hands before closing a table, sometimes it happens that players will sit out/leave, and the BB jumps over you, meaning you end up playing the SB instead of sitting out and closing. could you chase up with yer tech guys, plizz?

[PokerStars VIP]

Is it possible to have every hand history for the past couple years emailed to me? Or how far can I request back hh's?

You can go quite a ways back. Support will provide you with links to where you can download your hand histories. Just email support@pokerstars.com (or me) with the date period you want your hand histories from.

Dylan

[PokerStars VIP]

+1

Also, Dylan - i logged a 'bug' about the "sit out next big blind" function a while ago - essentially, I think it should be "sit out next blind". e.g. if you just wanna play your free hands before closing a table, sometimes it happens that players will sit out/leave, and the BB jumps over you, meaning you end up playing the SB instead of sitting out and closing. could you chase up with yer tech guys, plizz?

Good find DoubleJ and thanks for letting me know. I'll be informing the Tech team of the glitch, along with RPM's suggestion to eliminate some of the clutter in regards to the check-boxes. .

Thanks,

Dylan

[rpm]

+1

essentially, I think it should be "sit out next blind".

couldn't agree more.

[PokerStars VIP]

+1

Also, Dylan - i logged a 'bug' about the "sit out next big blind" function a while ago - essentially, I think it should be "sit out next blind". e.g. if you just wanna play your free hands before closing a table, sometimes it happens that players will sit out/leave, and the BB jumps over you, meaning you end up playing the SB instead of sitting out and closing. could you chase up with yer tech guys, plizz?

It's now in our Tech's hands, but a comment I received is that some players use the 'Sit out next Big Blind' right after they've posted their BB, which allows them to play the SB and finish the orbit. I still see where you're coming from here, but just another perspective on why it may exist as it does now. We'll see what they think!

[DoubleJ]

...which allows them to play the SB and finish the orbit...

huh?

they want a function specifically to allow them to pay to play the worst seat at the table?

How about a function to allow them to show everyone their hole-cards preflop too?

but seriously...if you were to move these options to the session menu like like rpm suggests, you could have both, oui?

[PokerStars VIP]

huh?

they want a function specifically to allow them to pay to play the worst seat at the table?

How about a function to allow them to show everyone their hole-cards preflop too?

but seriously...if you were to move these options to the session menu like like rpm suggests, you could have both, oui?

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. The function as it is now lets you click the 'Sit out next Big Blind' checkbox when you're currently playing your Big Blind. You then pay your SB and finish the rest of the orbit. I do think you bring up valid areas of improvement though and with the new sessions feature there's a lot more potential for efficiency.

Dylan

[DoubleJ]

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying.

No no, I did. It's just my Eenglish sense of humourings doesn't really translate to the Interwebz.

Sorry about that.

However, the glitch, as reported, would still potentially occur in the scenario you describe if another player subsequently leaves/joins/sits out at just the wrong moment, causing the BB to skip over you and you end up SB again.

I assume that this is legitimate behaviour for the Blinds, so IMHO the function should be either
* smart enough to recognise this or,
* be made more specific, and you just don't use it from the BB

[PokerStars VIP]

Happy Monday FTR'ers.

The SCOOP Reload Bonus is now live, 50% up to $250. Enter 'MAX250' into the PokerStars Bonus Code box to apply the bonus. You have until May3rd to deposit and then 30 days from the time you deposited to clear the bonus. The bonus is earned in increments of $10 for every 200 VPPs earned.

Let me know if you have any questions, and happy SCOOP'ing to all!

Dylan

[DoubleJ]

Hi Dylan,

Howzit goin'?

Are you able to give us an update on the sitch between PS and Poker Table Ratings?

[PokerStars VIP]

Hi Dylan,

Howzit goin'?

Are you able to give us an update on the sitch between PS and Poker Table Ratings?

Hi DoubleJ,

PTR no longer provides stats of our players. Is that what you were wondering?

Dylan

[DoubleJ]

yes

what happened? it all sounded a bit acrimonious

[daven]

Hi Dylan,

Howzit goin'?

Are you able to give us an update on the sitch between PS and Poker Table Ratings?

i wonder if it has anything to do with
a: pretty much any info viewed on ptr was in breach of

5.5. EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA). PokerStars prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage" to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer software (other than the Software), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g. web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User accesses or compiles information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play

and

b: the fact that they profited financially by selling hand histories that players used to cheat (= breach 5.5 above = cheat)


i can imagine a plethora of other possible reasons, but that's probably a good start.

[PokerStars VIP]

Daven is correct. We took action which resulted in them no longer offering our hand histories.

Dylan

[daven]

deep ante euro tables - omaha and/or nlhe? i can't find them. I would like to find them.

[PokerStars VIP]

I don't see them either - will float it up to the Ring Games team. I'm traveling this weekend but I'll be back on Tuesday.

Dylan

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

This is from when I asked you in October about the relocation process:

Hi Vi-Zer0,

Here's what you'll be asked to provide:

-A copy of government issued photo I.D. (your U.S. Passport or U.S. Driver's License is fine)
-A Bank Statement from a bank in your current country with your name and new address clearly visible (it helps if it's officially stamped by the bank)
-A Utility Bill in your name and/or a Lease Agreement. For the Lease, it has to be the legal Lease Agreement signed by both you and your landlord and it has to be for at least 3 months. A month long lease isn't sufficient.
-A landline phone number (where you can be reached by security to confirm your relocation).

If you haven't yet relocated or played since April 15th, you can relocate in 2012 and maintain your VIP Status for 5.5 months after the date you're relocated (provided you maintain the Supernova monthly VPP requirements). The VPPs you accrued in 2011 are carried over as well.

Best of luck, and let me know if you have further questions.

DylanC

I'm now starting to get myself sorted out and I've realized there isn't a landline phone in my girlfriend's London house. I'll also be staying at a second residence (which I'm pretty sure does have a landline), but it would be very inconvenient for me to travel to Oundle (90 minutes away) and wait for Pokerstars to call me to get my account reactivated.

Is there a way to circumvent this part of the reactivation process? Could Pokerstars call me via skype and verify my new location through my IP address?

Also I assume stars wants me to fax in my supporting documents. Could you provide me with the appropriate fax number?

Thanks,

Sam

[daven]

Is there a way to circumvent this part of the reactivation process? Could Pokerstars call me via skype and verify my new location through my IP address?

Also I assume stars wants me to fax in my supporting documents. Could you provide me with the appropriate fax number?

Thanks,

Sam

two ideas
1 - see if they can call you on your cell phone
2 - take photos of the documents and e-mail them to support (all poker sites i have played on have been fine with this)

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

cheers daven, emailing pictures of the docs would be 10x easier than getting to somewhere that has a fax machine! Is that an option Rav?

[bikes]

Dear Awesome People at Stars,

I am soon returning to not-Americaland after hiatus in Americaland. I had my account locked after I left Thailand in December to prevent any wtfproblems from rising up (eg drunk me logging in to PS and then getting account banned). When I return to not-Americaland do I have to regrind my SN status from scratch? Or will I still have it as it's not like I could maintain it whilst in Americaland?

[Keith]

This is from when I asked you in October about the relocation process:




I'm now starting to get myself sorted out and I've realized there isn't a landline phone in my girlfriend's London house. I'll also be staying at a second residence (which I'm pretty sure does have a landline), but it would be very inconvenient for me to travel to Oundle (90 minutes away) and wait for Pokerstars to call me to get my account reactivated.

Is there a way to circumvent this part of the reactivation process? Could Pokerstars call me via skype and verify my new location through my IP address?

Also I assume stars wants me to fax in my supporting documents. Could you provide me with the appropriate fax number?

Thanks,

Sam

how are you accessiing the internet without landline? through your mobile or unlocked wireless signal. Have you got the bank account sorted ?pretty sure Clan_sup3rman had to get a utility bill with his name on it beforehe could get the bank account sorted.

Cheap Home Broadband & Phone packages - Broadband & Phone from Plusnet is a cheap way of hgetting phone and broadband and should count as a utility bill to get the bank account.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

I can't recall whether she has a router or if they are piggybacking on another wireless signal, but yeah definitely no landline in the London house.

I got a couple really helpful PM's from L_Clan_sup3rman about the whole relocating to England process. He recommended the HSBC passport bank account for convenience -- still waiting to hear whether they've approved me for an account. I am optimistic I can be playing within 7 days of getting to London!

I've talked to my girlfriend about the utility bill thing so that should be sorted before I get there.

[daven]

a mix of stakes, mostly 25nl and 50nl

so far this month i have played 56k hands and am running 4ptBB/100.
I have paid more in rake than i have won at the tables.
wtf is going on? is this standard?

ja ja, move up already

[DoubleJ]

I have paid more in rake than i have won at the tables.

^^^ same same @ 5NL

[PokerStars VIP]

This is from when I asked you in October about the relocation process:




I'm now starting to get myself sorted out and I've realized there isn't a landline phone in my girlfriend's London house. I'll also be staying at a second residence (which I'm pretty sure does have a landline), but it would be very inconvenient for me to travel to Oundle (90 minutes away) and wait for Pokerstars to call me to get my account reactivated.

Is there a way to circumvent this part of the reactivation process? Could Pokerstars call me via skype and verify my new location through my IP address?

Also I assume stars wants me to fax in my supporting documents. Could you provide me with the appropriate fax number?

Thanks,

Sam

Hi Sam,

Sorry for the delay, it was a Holiday weekend here in Canada and I was out in the woods until today.

Yes, you can certainly take pictures of your documents (so long as the entire page is captured in the picture and the information is legible) and upload them in the client or send them to security@pokerstars.com. As for the necessary verification call on your landline, you can explain your situation to our security department and ask if it's possible to be called on a UK cell phone.

When you've sent in the documents, send me a quick email at vip_canada@pokerstars.com so I can take a look at your case and hopefully help get past the landline problem.

Dylan