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The value, or otherwise, of rak3back
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biondino
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05-01-2007, 10:19 AM
Post subject: The value, or otherwise, of rak3back
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I hope this can be a useful thread, though it will require contributions from others. I have just had an exchange with Stars' support (about whether I can set up private tournaments - I can't, yet, as I haven't earned over 2,000 FPPs at the table), and I mentioned that I don't play very often at Stars because I don't get rakeback there. This was his response:
Quote:
Remember, rakeback is only paid for by higher rake. We strive to give all players the lowest rake - "rakeback" promotions only serve to charge players more rake, and then give it back at some later date. If you compare the rake schedules across sites, I suspect you will find PokerStars is among the lowest, if not the lowest, in terms of percentage for rake. |
I have no doubt this is true; but, for the sake of comparison, I would like this thread ultimately to produce a chart which compares, in real money terms, the cost PER HAND of each popular site in terms of rake. The idea is that this figure will include the best commonly available rakeback terms, so, for example, Crypto's rake will be reduced by the 30% which seems to be the market standard.
So: my challenge to you is to calculate (showing your working so we know the maths is right!) the rake paid (minus rb where appropriate) per hand of $100NL at the sites on which you play.
Thanks in advance to all who contribute! I'll try and do some sums myself when I get home tonight.
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Good idea! As far as Stars is concerned, there was a thread on 2+2 or some other site discussing the value of Stars FPPs given that Goldstar players and above can exchange FPPs for cash.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Yes, we'll certainly need a sub-category for VIP-type programmes. Who knows, this might end up being horribly complicated, but it's certainly worth investigating - I dunno if I'll be staying at Crypto if it proves to be more expensive than some big donkfest site 
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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it takes roughly 3867 VPPs to generate 5400 FPP after your silver star and gold star bonuses (assuming you do this within a month and starting from bronze...if you're already silver star+ then obviously it takes less VPPs).
so...that's roughly $773 in tourney entry fees.
the 5400 FPP satellite pays top 4 into the sunday million, which is a $215 buyin. so, now you withdrawal from the tournament and you't get 215 T$. proceed to use that T$ in SnGs/MTTs and when you win, you get real money. if SnGs/MTTs are your main game anyways, then it's practically real money.
since top 4 gets paid, let's assume you get ITM 50% of the time. so you expect to make 215/2 = $107 for each $773 tourney fees.
that's 13.8% rakeback starting from scratch in a calendar month.
if you are already gold star (100% VPP bonus), it takes 2700 VPP points = $540 in fees. so $107/$540 = 19.8% rakeback.
already platinum star (150% VPP bonus)? you get 24.7% rakeback.
also, consider that tournament players get shafted in FPPs vs cash players, it will be much higher for a cash player. practically every hand is raked for NL...so even at 75% of all hands, at 90 hands an hour, you're getting 67 FPPs. compare that to a $20+2, which you're getting only 10 FPPs. thus, with cash players you're getting over 100% rakeback here.
but i never wrote any of this and you never read it either.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by taipan168
Good idea! As far as Stars is concerned, there was a thread on 2+2 or some other site discussing the value of Stars FPPs given that Goldstar players and above can exchange FPPs for cash.
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Check with e-jeff on this topic. I think he said the FPPs for cash deal worked out to something close to 24% rakeback or around that figure.
As for helping you with other sites I don't get rakeback so I have no idea.
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