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a500lbgorilla
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10-09-2005, 02:45 AM
Post subject: Party poker seperate from skins. Good or bad?
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#1 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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For players with rakeback, the short term results of this are horrible. They can no longer get that big monthly paycheck becuase they grind 36000 hands in the next month.
But what does it mean for the future of party poker? And before I say it, I would like to point out that I was totally right about the 50bb to 100bb cash game change so you should totally listen to me.
Break even players will die. Sorry. With fewer breakeven players at the table, that means you have more winning players and more losing players at your table.
The change will probably be from like 2 winners, 5 breakeven, 3 fish per table. To 2 winners, 3 breakeven, 5 fish. So 6 months from now, table selection will be very nice becuase mutlitabling TAggs and rocks will slowly dissappear and the waters will be a little less murky for the sharks. I'm not sure where the rakeback pimps and hos will go, but they certainly wont stand for the crappy rake at party.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Yeah this is weak. Just as I was getting into rakeback too.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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I am relatively accepting of it. I never recieved Rakeback on Party, only on a skin.
I am mostly upset that this means table selection will drop for both Party, and the skins. I guess that is a point in your post, since the Rakeback players will now be playing the Skins while Party operates independently.
This means a good deal of MTTAGs will no longer be on the Party network.
That being said I think this is a horrible marketing decision for PartyGaming since the major draw to Party is the player base, and they just cut it down by a great deal.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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i tried playing NL 25 on multipoker and that place is now a fukn rock garden. this is ridiculous!
i'm going back to bodog... after i clear another 1000 fukn hands to clear this fukn bonus cos fukn partypoker fukn screwed my fukn ass
I'm gonna try at a different time tonite but this is shite...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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The rakeback breakeven players will either die quickly on a skin or migrate to party (or off the network) and die slower. But for the next month this sucks for the party network becuase the rocks will probably still be around and we wont be compensated with rakeback.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Also, I think it's a pretty good move by Party Poker becuase it's going to kill the skins and everyone will return back to Party without rakeback and Party will enjoy all the money in the internet.
Now, if Party were to offer rakeback, they'd corner the market easily.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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i'm just so fukn pissed!
i wanna go and bang my head into the wall
GRRRRRRR!
I'm just gonna be a dance teacher instead of going pro
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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Man o man.. it takes forever to get in a table on MULTI [one with an avg pot >$5, haha]
** On a side note: How annoying is the "anti-bot" program on Party now?
I kept getting this pop up every two hands! Then it would freeze my table.. *sigh*
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sunfunbunch
Man o man.. it takes forever to get in a table on MULTI [one with an avg pot >$5, haha]
** On a side note: How annoying is the "anti-bot" program on Party now?
I kept getting this pop up every two hands! Then it would freeze my table.. *sigh*
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Are you a bot?
Or more technically, are you using some type of program that bypasses the mouse action? That is one thing they look for, as well as scanning your harddrive for any programs they don't like.
Then they freeze your account and take your money.
Good Luck.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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No, no and no. =)
It would come up here and there. They made you type certain letters to make sure that it was a REAL person that was playing the game, and NOT a bot.
Ofcourse I typed it in, and THEN I could play. It was just annoying, because I would be multi-tabling, and the 'pop up' would come up in one table, and mess up my game on other tables.
Just annoying!
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okietalker
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Party 100/200NL
Posts: 53
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My take is pretty simple.............. The Rakeback Ho's are going to go find some Rakeback somewhere.
That leaves a higher fish to shark ratio.
I believe this will be good for the better players in the long run.
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Just my opinion (and I'm probably wrong) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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DoGGz
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Well, if you just look at party tonight, from an average saturday night. The games average pots are much higher.
What I believe we will see over time is the middle level 2+2s and semi pros will look for rakeback while the fish will stay with party. I think that the rakeback will be offset by a higher winrate for good players.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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my plan now is to move my entire BR to Party Poker.
From there
I wont get any rakeback
BUt I can still 10 table with all the fish.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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i'm STILL sitting here trying to work off the multipoker bonus
I'm finding a cure for insomnia! WHY OH WHY OH WHY do you have to screw us whores up the ass with that big pimpstick!??
but i'm making a steady profit by lagging it up (and showing my 74o when I take down the pot). I've had like no hands today and still making money but man I miss the fish
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Im pissed because for the last 2-3 months ive cleared all my bonuses 4 tablin omaha hi and now with them seperated from each other the only one that will have enough tables is party poker.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Rilla's comments pretty much summed everything up. The multi-table rocks will stick around for a couple weeks on the skins because they can't handle the idea of no rakeback. They'll eventually get fed up with everyone at their table playing the same way they do and move to another site or suck it up and play on Party. Sadly I see the skins possibly drying up, especially ones like PokerNow which was having some problems even before the change. This change hurts the more serious players, especially LHE players, because they are more likely to take advantage of rakeback. For NL and tournament players, I see the change being more of a nuisance than anything else. This has potential positive ramifications though. The upside is that the most hardcore players will be more less inclined to play on Party as Okie mentioned. I expect the games to be somewhat softer intially as the rocks either move away or at least sit back temporarily and wait to see how things unfold. The average player doesn't belong to a rakeback program and more than likely plays on Party to begin with so they won't care as the change doesn't directly affect them. They'll keep playing as usual and the better player will benefit because of the better ratio of weak:strong player. Things will eventually balance themselves out as people begin to become accustomed to the change and the softer play attracts stronger players back.
I see a site such as PokerStars, which doesn't offer rakeback either, but has a large player base and a more reasonable rake structure benefiting as I expect some players will defect there.
As a side note, if you play MTTs you should take advantage of the guaranteed tournaments on the skins. Because the tournaments on the skins, with the exception of PokerNow, are independent of Party, I suspect the general decrease in traffic on these sites will make for large overlays until the sites make the necessary adjustments.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Quote:
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I see a site such as PokerStars, which doesn't offer Rakeback either, but has a large player base and a more reasonable rake structure benefiting as I expect some players will defect there.
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Yeah I agree - with party skins splitting up they now have the largest poker room on the net too.
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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I just finished a 2 hr session on Party clearing TAKEIT and won a whopping 52BB.I repeat 52BB with some of my hands getting paid off.A few suckouts but that is a good thing since it means people are chasing my bets.I also noticed more players I hadn't seen before as well as none of the sharks who frequent the waters.I repeat I won 52BB in 2 hours playing reasonably solid poker.Perhaps this change may work out.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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okie... i've calmed down.
I've got until the end of the month to finish my 850 or so multipoker hands left... but i've got to take it straight to party and clear the TAKEIT.
I don't know what i'm gonna do after that... perhaps if the players are so terrible I'll have to bite the bullet and play cold turkey... geez
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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I have decided that not having rakeback doesnt make that big of a idfference. Yes I lose out on a few hundred a month (potentially), but overall I am still a winning player and I will still pwn everyone on PP.
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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Do you think that the laggy Eurotrash players will still keep playing on Multipoker (and other skins)? They have rakeback, direct bank transfers and its tax free money to us. Where will the 16 tabling sng pros go? Someone already mentioned the higher stakes Party ring being easier than normally, why is that? Because all the rocks have been playing on the skins because of the rakeback and suddenly the fish who are playing high stakes without rakeback are left all alone to the deep waters without that many sharks?
I think it would be worth playing on Party now because of the lack of sharks, at least for some weeks before the poker ecosystem is balanced.
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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RbSX
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 56
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pingviini
Do you think that the laggy Eurotrash players will still keep playing on Multipoker (and other skins)? They have rakeback, direct bank transfers and its tax free money to us. Where will the 16 tabling sng pros go? Someone already mentioned the higher stakes Party ring being easier than normally, why is that? Because all the rocks have been playing on the skins because of the rakeback and suddenly the fish who are playing high stakes without rakeback are left all alone to the deep waters without that many sharks?
I think it would be worth playing on Party now because of the lack of sharks, at least for some weeks before the poker ecosystem is balanced. |
I was the guy that mentioned that the higher stakes appear to be easier, I was pulling between 500 - 2k a day off of Empire with the sharks playing.
I sat for 2-3 hours watching Party this evening after the switch, and I think it will be easier to achieve those same parameters.
Edit: After reading that I think that doesn't come out right. I think there will be far less bad beats, because there will be less sharks. The game will be come more stress free.
This is largely because a majority of the people I saw playing had sh!tty bankroll management and were playing 600nl with 200-400 dollar stacks, easy to bully off the hands if you've got the right size stack.
I could be mistaken though.
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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I don't like it personally. for one, It makes the multipoker reloads a lot harder to clear, and I had a rakeback on Eurobet that's kind of pointless now.
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RbSX
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 56
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
I don't like it personally. for one, It makes the multipoker reloads a lot harder to clear, and I had a rakeback on Eurobet that's kind of pointless now. |
Thats the one pratfall, I think it will be interesting to find out what the migration percentage from the skins to PP will be. I, for one, hope it's low. It'll help my bankroll.
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RbSX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
I don't like it personally. for one, It makes the multipoker reloads a lot harder to clear, and I had a rakeback on Eurobet that's kind of pointless now. |
Thats the one pratfall, I think it will be interesting to find out what the migration percentage from the skins to PP will be. I, for one, hope it's low. It'll help my bankroll. |
I highly doubt it'll be low. This is gonna end up putting the skins out of business.
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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If the skins might get out of business do you think our money in them will be safe, I am considering keeping my multi account pretty low.
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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i'm sure if they were going to close down they'd give notice for people to cash out
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
i'm sure if they were going to close down they'd give notice for people to cash out
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I think that is a very poor assumption to make. I definately would not keep money in any skin that doesn't also have a casino/sports betting on it(basically, I'm not keeping money anywhere except Eurobet/Party anymore).
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Wow. PP is *so* fishy.
I was up like $150 6 tabling NL25 for my reload. Got my AA preflop all in beat by AKs and tilted - finished $100 ahead.
but man, this beats rakeback... just dunno if i can make myself play without bonus
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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RbSX
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 56
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
Wow. PP is *so* fishy.
I was up like $150 6 tabling NL25 for my reload. Got my AA preflop all in beat by AKs and tilted - finished $100 ahead.
but man, this beats rakeback... just dunno if i can make myself play without bonus
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Made a $50 Preflop bet today, 2nd guy calls, 3rd guy (short stack) goes all in, I reraised the 2nd guy to create a side pot. Guy hits runner runner for the straight. Sidepot saved my ass.
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RbSX
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 56
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RbSX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
I don't like it personally. for one, It makes the multipoker reloads a lot harder to clear, and I had a rakeback on Eurobet that's kind of pointless now. |
Thats the one pratfall, I think it will be interesting to find out what the migration percentage from the skins to PP will be. I, for one, hope it's low. It'll help my bankroll. |
I highly doubt it'll be low. This is gonna end up putting the skins out of business. |
I don't know how many people are going to migrate directly over to PP, I think alot of people will go to pokerstars.
Here's an example of the table domination I've been seeing so far.
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eeeee
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 906
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OK, I'm a pretty bright boy, but please explain to me, real slow like,
Why is this change going to screw up rakeback?
Why won't I still be able to camp at Eurobet/Multi/Empire 28 days a month and still have good outcomes?
I understand, a big pool of "I-just-saw-the-ad-on-TV" players is goot, but is that the only reason poker works for me?
The only conclusion I read in this thread that made logical sense [to me] was Boon's sadness over losing workable Omaha tables. THAT make sense.
'Rilla, I'd be happy to just believe your prediction based on prior picks, but I still don't see why -- you no explainee.
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I'm a know-it-all.
No, really.
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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The shark/fish relatio will be higher because the MTTags have been playing on the skins because of the rakeback. OR you will play without rakeback on Party. I personally will multitable party for a while now when there is a lot of fish comp to sharks, this will be more profitable than playing on the skins right now, rakeback or not.
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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woody350ep
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15
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yeah eeeee, boon was saddened so much that last night, he was giving me lines from songs in a trivia session on AIM lol
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Jason
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
Why is this change going to screw up Rakeback?
Why won't I still be able to camp at Eurobet/Multi/Empire 28 days a month and still have good outcomes?
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It won't change rakeback, but the game on the skins will likely change to the point that even with rakeback it won't be worth playing on them. When the average player opens a new account it's many times more likely to be on Party rather than a skin. Party has the name recognition and spends tons more on adverstising than all the skins combined. So who plays on the skins then? It's typically a regular player that already has a Party account, but opened up ones on the skins to take advantage of bonuses, rakeback and the ability to play more than 4 tables. It didn't matter if you were logging into EuroBet with all these other regulars because you were still able to play with all the fish that logged on via Party. The shark tanks had access to the kiddie pools so to speak. That access is now been denied and the sharks are left to swim among themselves. You'll still have your rakeback, but you'll be left to contend with better players.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eeeee
OK, I'm a pretty bright boy, but please explain to me, real slow like,
Why is this change going to screw up rakeback?
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Rakeback is very difficult to get on Party poker. You can keep rakeback on a skin, but you'll be playing against other rakeback multirocks.
Quote:
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Why won't I still be able to camp at Eurobet/Multi/Empire 28 days a month and still have good outcomes?
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Other people will be doing the same. Most rocks hate to pay you off. Nut peddling will be an experience is drawing blood from stone.
Quote:
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I understand, a big pool of "I-just-saw-the-ad-on-TV" players is goot, but is that the only reason poker works for me?
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Yes.
In the party world previous there were 3 groups of people. Winners, breakeven and fish. The breakeven players pool was almost as large as the fish pool. So the breakdown might look like 10% Sharks, 40% breakeven, 50% fish. By removing breakeven, they'll eventually go bust (but slowly) or immediately migrate somewhere else where they can get a nice fat rakeback check to live off of. So the future will have fewer breakeven players (Who are tough to get money from.) per table and more fish per table.
You can see it for yourself if you play on the skins about a month from now.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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eeeee
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 906
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OIC -- TY.
I'm going to quit poker now. I sure don't want to play tables full of guys like eeeee. 
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I'm a know-it-all.
No, really.
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by woody350ep
yeah eeeee, boon was saddened so much that last night, he was giving me lines from songs in a trivia session on AIM lol
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I was doing that because I was getting all the Mp3s off my Mp3 player back on my computer after my hard drive failed and aaron couldnt seem to get any right
dont forget to watch the new episode of breaking bonaduce tonight everyone - its gonna be wild
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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losing break even players is bad.
u want more break even players in the pool, they win enough from the fish to keep themselves happy and in turn the whole lot of them pay me.
if we only had money makers and money losers, the money losers woudl all bust out. Leaving just sharks.
Rilla, would u rather play against a break even player and siphon their money for a week, or break a fish in a few hours and never have him come back? Will there be a constant flow of fish into online poker?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
losing break even players is bad.
u want more break even players in the pool, they win enough from the fish to keep themselves happy and in turn the whole lot of them pay me.
if we only had money makers and money losers, the money losers woudl all bust out. Leaving just sharks.
Rilla, would u rather play against a break even player and siphon their money for a week, or break a fish in a few hours and never have him come back? Will there be a constant flow of fish into online poker?
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I don't think break even players serve the purpose to keep the fish alive any longer than normal.
And with fewer multirocks, table selection will be a breeze.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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CrunchyNuts
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 436
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I'm going to sink the rest of my goddamn life into this Multi bonus now....it's going sooooo slooooow...
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
losing break even players is bad.
u want more break even players in the pool, they win enough from the fish to keep themselves happy and in turn the whole lot of them pay me.
if we only had money makers and money losers, the money losers woudl all bust out. Leaving just sharks.
Rilla, would u rather play against a break even player and siphon their money for a week, or break a fish in a few hours and never have him come back? Will there be a constant flow of fish into online poker?
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I don't think break even players serve the purpose to keep the fish alive any longer than normal.
And with fewer multirocks, table selection will be a breeze.
-'rilla |
if all the EP multiorkcs went back to PP and 10 tabled, woudlnt it all be the same.
I kno im going to 10 table.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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half of them will slowly bust.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
half of them will slowly bust.
-'rilla
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how mnay SNG players do u think live off of rakeback?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
half of them will slowly bust.
-'rilla
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how mnay SNG players do u think live off of rakeback? |
My comments are really completely about cash game players.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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it's fucked up... i hate it!
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
half of them will slowly bust.
-'rilla
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how mnay SNG players do u think live off of rakeback? |
My comments are really completely about cash game players.
-'rilla |
lets discuss SNGs now =D.
Its more vqc relevant.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
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why?
just cuz theres no rakeback doesnt mean its over.
if they allow rakeback again, would the party be back?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The rakeback breakeven players will either die quickly on a skin or migrate to party (or off the network) and die slower. But for the next month this sucks for the party network becuase the rocks will probably still be around and we wont be compensated with rakeback. |
Fuck that, rakeback was 1/3 of my win-rate.
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06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
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