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Anosmic
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08-31-2006, 08:17 AM
Post subject: Interpoker. Bah!
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Just when I thought I finally had a site worth staying on they go and do this.
Suddenly you have to be a $200NL player to clear their monthly match bonus and they make it sound like this is a good thing.
Bah.
*steam*
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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That is just ridiculous, but you're right - they made it sound like we were going to LOVE their new bonus-clearing methods - I even wrote support an email a few days ago saying "you wouldn't be about to fuck us low-stakes players in the rectum, would you?" and I got back nothing but PR drivel.
Dear everyone to whom I have recently recommended Interpoker - I am very very sorry.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Here's my email to their help desk:
"I would very much appreciate and honest explanation of why you have changed your monthly match bonus clearing requirements.
I play at £25NL-$100NL at your site, 5-10,000 hands a month which brings in thousands of pounds of rake over the year. All of a sudden I am not able to claim your excellent bonus, not because I don't pay enough rake (indeed, because of your 1/4 MPP system for small pots, I have to play even more hands and pay even more rake than the higher limits to clear the bonus), but because I don't play for substantial sums of money. And now, of course, even if I do improve enough to play $200NL upwards, it won't be at your site.
I sincerely hope you realise the strength of feeling among your lower stakes players over this, and realise quite what a hit your bottom line will take when thousands of us go elsewhere. It's not just the money, of course - a smaller network like Crypto needs a critical player mass to seem appealing to players considering joining, and they're not going to be impressed when your user base falls by a third or more!
It seems to me that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You make a lot of money off me - not as much as if I were playing $1000NL but your chancge of policy isn't suddenly going to make me move up stakes. I, and hundreds of others, will leave Interpoker as a result of this unbelieveably short-sighted decision - we may only be small stakes players, but where do you think the next generation of high rollers is going to come from?
I would appreciate a personal response rather than a stock reply that doesn't actually explain anything. I hope my loyal custom over the past year makes me deserve at least that courtesy.
Best,
Mark
p.s. the icing on the cake is the way your mailouts have said with the utmost hypocrisy "you're going to love our new match bonus clearing rates". You didn't really think that through, did you?"
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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I hope they pay attention to what you've said. But I doubt it.
Oh, I just remembered. I got an email last week inviting me to a new-user tourney.
Only when I logged on there wasn't one at the stated time... I emailed support and still no answer.
They really do know how to attract customers...
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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This is the way it was before on the Crypto network, wasn't it? Shitty, but I always cleared the Inter* bonus in the casino.
I just hope this is a Interpoker site specific change and not a Crypto Network change. If it is, I'm out.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I guess the casino is still an option, but not nearly as attractive a one - you have to do it on top of playing poker and, obviously, you have to take into account the house's vigorish.
I think it is just Interpoker. I can't go back to Hills because I don't have rakeback there, but I guess I could try another skin.
Are there any other good sites that offer PT support and £ tables?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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BTW, can all the Interpoker players who post here please please please sent an email of complaint to Interpoker support? Even if it makes no difference it's vital that the sites understand that their customers feel cheated and betrayed by this kind of action, and withdrawing our custom is the only weapon we have - if enough of us do it then maybe it will make things happen.
Interpoker isn't Party - they have a need to keep and nurture their user base and we need to let them know we won't stand for being alienated like this.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Here's the reply I received from Interpoker - the bits in bold are highlighted by me - and my response.
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Dear Mark,
Hello and thank you for contacting the Players Help support team regarding our new bonus system.
Thank you for your feedback on this matter. As a valued customer, we appreciate all feedback and opinion we receive from you.
Please be advised that all hands on the $1/$2 tables and above will qualify for a raked hand, this means that anything you bet on a $1/$2 table will go towards a rake hand.
Please be aware that this does not mean that you are not allowed to play on the low limit tables, you are still able to so with the decision of wether you want to receive the bonus or not.
We felt that this way, we are giving customers more control as to wether they want to receive the bonus or not.
I do sincerely apologise if this has created inconvenience for you and you are not happy with the changes.
If we can be of any more assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We are here for you 24 hours per day 365 days per year.
Tel:
011 80077774357 North America
00 80077774357 Europe
+80077774357 Other countries
Kind regards
Karen
Customer Service
Players Help
=============================================
Dear Karen,
You must realise that this is a ridiculous response, right? I don't play the $1/$2 tables. I would be extremely foolish if I did so because I am not rolled for them and I am not skilled enough. So this "choice" you suggest I have is utterly false, and you are in serious danger of promoting irresponsible gambling by encouraging less skilled players to take a shot at higher stakes.
"We felt that this way, we are giving customers more control as to wether they want to receive the bonus or not."
Tell me, which customers do you think would actively choose not to take free money if it was as simple as that? Can you not see you have taken away any notion of "control" from players like me? Before, I had "control" - I could choose how much to deposit, and how many hands to play, and how much bonus I could expect as a result. Now, I have no way of receiving any bonus. How is that beneficial to me?
I appreciate your job is to succour people like me, but to be honest I'd rather you said "yup, it sucks, we're intentionally disadvantaging our lower-stakes players to save money, sorry but that's just the way it is". There is no way this change of policy can be wrapped up in spin to sound good to the, what, 50% of your customers who are now unable to take advantage of what was the single biggest incentive for playing at Interpoker?
If either you or a colleague would like to enter a genuine discussion about this, I would be delighted to do so. I fully understand that running a profitable business requires occasionally unpalatable changes, but this is so far beyond an "inconvenience" as to make me wonder just who thought it might be a good idea.
I look forward to your response, as do the hundreds of readers of the poker forums to which I am an active contributor.
Best wishes,
Mark
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tommyd7878
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: bay roberts,nl,canada
Posts: 24
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I guess the casino is still an option, but not nearly as attractive a one - you have to do it on top of playing poker and, obviously, you have to take into account the house's vigorish.
I think it is just Interpoker. I can't go back to Hills because I don't have rakeback there, but I guess I could try another skin.
Are there any other good sites that offer PT support and £ tables?
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You can close your original account at any of the Cryptos and open another one with RB. Just delete the software and cookies.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Yeah, that's what I did when I moved to Interpoker. Sadly the other sites don't offer nearly as sexy a bonus.
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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LOL
Oh, that's outright hysterical. "You are still allowed to play the lower limits." Gee, really? Well, how generous. I had no idea.
You might consider emailing your RB affiliate that you won't be playing IP anymore. Maybe the affiliates as a group might have more of an influence if they yell loud enough. But really, did anyone really look forward to the changes IP had in mind when they announced that "Now your bonus will be even easier to clear" or some such nonsense? I cringed inwardly when I read that-- and I don't even play IP.
I'm not sure what you mean about the "house's vigorish" with the casino bonus. I find it pleasant to take a break from playing poker and playing some BJ essentially risk free. But, to each their own.
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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BTW for casino whores--
Starting in September you'll need to enter a bonus code to claim the casino match bonus and it'll be different from the poker code. Info is here:
http://www.intercasino.com/promotions/deposit/
Looks like the casino code will be MMSEPDL.
Other than that, it looks like the casino bonus remains the same.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drtofu66
You might consider emailing your RB affiliate that you won't be playing IP anymore. Maybe the affiliates as a group might have more of an influence if they yell loud enough. But really, did anyone really look forward to the changes IP had in mind when they announced that "Now your bonus will be even easier to clear" or some such nonsense? I cringed inwardly when I read that-- and I don't even play IP.
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I have done so already, and got a nice reply back from them saying they're happy to pass on our concerns.
But as for your second sentence, I felt exactly the same as you when I read that - I just *knew* that one way or antoher things would change for the worse, but I had no idea that I would have to "choose" to play $200NL+ or sacrifice the bonus altogether...
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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the sick thing about it is that they apparently see 1/2 LH equivalent of 200NL.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I know - it may be convenient to lump all the games together by blind sizes but they MUST know how unrealistic it is?
2+2 have a thread on this topic - needless to say it's got more higher-limit sharks rubbing their hands together than poor schmucks like me - but I have posted my correspondence there too. If they say anything interesting I'll quote it here.
(I am actually contemplating playing some 1/2 limit to work the bonus off and see whether I can do it successfully - I was a breakeven player at 0.50/1 and with a bit of application I guess I could manage it?)
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paulwright
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 130
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Mark or Anosmic, could one of you guys post the original email you were sent explaining the new bonus details in full (unless there is nothing new to add from above). As both you guys know I was considering joining IP next, and am just making my way up to NL200, so would be keen to get all details for a comparison v other crypto sites with rb I may join instead... thanks guys... (ps feel bad for you guys, I know you loved it there)
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Paul, it seems that if you are able to play $200NL then it's actually a significant improvement - the bonus clears 5x rather than 10x. However, it also is no longer stackable - you have to clear it the month it relates to.
I didn't get an email - I went to Interpoker and checked out the small print on their promotions page, if you want to do that.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,166
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Time for some short stack ninja tactics at 200NL...
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
Here's my email to their help desk:
"I would very much appreciate and honest explanation of why you have changed your monthly match bonus clearing requirements.
I play at £25NL-$100NL at your site, 5-10,000 hands a month which brings in thousands of pounds of rake over the year. All of a sudden I am not able to claim your excellent bonus, not because I don't pay enough rake (indeed, because of your 1/4 MPP system for small pots, I have to play even more hands and pay even more rake than the higher limits to clear the bonus), but because I don't play for substantial sums of money. And now, of course, even if I do improve enough to play $200NL upwards, it won't be at your site.
I sincerely hope you realise the strength of feeling among your lower stakes players over this, and realise quite what a hit your bottom line will take when thousands of us go elsewhere. It's not just the money, of course - a smaller network like Crypto needs a critical player mass to seem appealing to players considering joining, and they're not going to be impressed when your user base falls by a third or more!
It seems to me that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You make a lot of money off me - not as much as if I were playing $1000NL but your chancge of policy isn't suddenly going to make me move up stakes. I, and hundreds of others, will leave Interpoker as a result of this unbelieveably short-sighted decision - we may only be small stakes players, but where do you think the next generation of high rollers is going to come from?
I would appreciate a personal response rather than a stock reply that doesn't actually explain anything. I hope my loyal custom over the past year makes me deserve at least that courtesy.
Best,
Mark
p.s. the icing on the cake is the way your mailouts have said with the utmost hypocrisy "you're going to love our new match bonus clearing rates". You didn't really think that through, did you?"
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oh god, i have the same name as a southerner. 
oh btw, this would be an excellent time to take up some of those great crypto limit games.
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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Come to think of it-- when they say "all hands played on 1 / 2 Unit ($/£/€) tables and above, where ANY rake is taken will count as a raked hand"-- doesn't that mean 1/2 Limit and 100NL (not 200NL)? The blinds in both games are 0.5/1 and this is the minimum requirement for Will Hill and the Crypto requirement back before they started counting 1/4 raked hands, so it stands to reason....
Just a thought. I saw that you're trying out 100NL, Mark, so maybe not all is lost? [Still out of my league ]
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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I'm really not sure what to do next.
I'll definitely send them a complainy email though.
I know that Betfair have a sign-up with similar terms to the old Interpoker monthly (500 for $100) and they have rb.
On the other hand I was just on the $1/2 limit tables and although there wasn't a lot of action it seemed okay.
I'm not a limit player, though I've thought about it a fair bit. And if we take 300bb as a good roll then I can handle that.
Even if it's slow in terms of action basically any flop is a raked hand, so I'd be surprised if you have to play more than 3000 hands a month.
Am I talking myself into this?
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
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oh btw, this would be an excellent time to take up some of those great Crypto limit games.
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if by 'great' you mean 'has massive rake and will eat up my winrate more than monster' then yes, great great limit games
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Quote:
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oh btw, this would be an excellent time to take up some of those great Crypto limit games.
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if by 'great' you mean 'has massive rake and will eat up my winrate more than monster' then yes, great great limit games
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did they change it? It was ok when i was playing there. Uncapped streets HU also helped.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Trying to decide whether I've made a huge mistake or not. 
Deposited $100 and sat down at a few $1/$2 tables.
So far I've played 350 hands of which 160 were raked, I'm playing at -5.81 BB/100 but I think I'm improving.
Assuming I can do this in a little over 1K hands, I'm set to end up -$116 for a $100 bonus 
On the positive side $7 rakeback would give me just a net loss of $9 for my education. If I was then closer to break-even and could clear next months bonus would that make this experiment +EV?
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
did they change it? It was ok when i was playing there. Uncapped streets HU also helped.
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You mean like this? 
Cryptologic
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
10 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $55.50
UTG+1: $61
UTG+2: $92
MP1: $51.25
MP2: $66.50
Hero: $62.25
CO: $28.25
Button: $69
SB: $44.75
BB: $32
Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with A A
5 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.
Flop: K A T (8.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB re-raises, Hero re-raises, BB re-raises, Hero re-raises, BB calls.
Turn: 8 (10.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls. <---Donkey!
River: 4 (12.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB re-raises, Hero re-raises, BB calls.
Results:
Final pot: 20.25BB
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Have y0u thought about Sunpoker. You can even get rakeback thru FTR. I do not think theyhave changed their bonus clearing structure.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Well, I've just completed the Interpoker bonus (I hope. PT says that 500 of my hands were raked).
It took 1100 hands tonight to get them; the tables are unbelievable, even I could see how soft they were and I'm not a limit player (although... I'm beginning to see the point).
Quite a lot of variance (or varying suckage by me) but my monsters got paid off and when I learned to tighten up it went okay.
Finished -$30 (-1.3bb/100) which is sucky, but worth it for a $100 bonus and about $10 in rb.
But I don't think interpoker will see me again until next month...
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Well played Anosmic - I am intending to play200 hands of limit to clear the last 21% of my august bonus and then leave forever (stopping to spend my MPPs on tourney entries on the way). I've already signed up for Sun Poker, and moved my $4k Interpoker balance into Neteller.
Maybe this whole sorry experience will encourage me to consolidate my poker sites - I am now a member of ten of them which is just dumb, especially since I can't be bothered to bonus whore.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,166
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Anyone having trouble getting Interpoker to give the bonus? I know I've played more than 500 raked hands and support hasn't answered my last 3 emails...
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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