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biondino

01-11-2008, 05:16 PM

#51 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

This is fab - PI claims it's a warning to newbie players but then goes on to say that bad play is rewarded!! All we now need to know is the cut-off point at which disadvantage kicks in - is it when we're quite bad, when we're competent, when we're moderately skilled, or what? And at what point does the skilled player get his +EV back, because at some point his skill will outweigh the rigging!

Also - what happens in games where there are few bad players? Does the software know that it can stop rigging the game? Or does it reward chasers rather than made hands?

So, to conclude. Noobs should play cash games, where the odds are rigged in their favour, but good players should play MTTs, where the big stacks will luck out over the small stacks. See - if you follow PI's logic, then everyone can be a winner!

PokerInsider

01-11-2008, 06:37 PM

#52 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 18

It seems we're getting nowhere - i defend my position you defend yours

For those interested in the argument, just check this thread which inspired me to post my little experience here

IS ONLINE POKER RIGGED? AN INVESTIGATION
http://www.cardschat.com/f13/online-...igation-70058/

So farewell, this is my last post here

Life is short - Live it up.

Rondavu

01-11-2008, 07:12 PM

#53 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

I'm rich biatch

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Jack Sawyer

01-11-2008, 07:13 PM

#54 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Old School

Posts: 2,535

Jack Sawyer will become famous soon enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerInsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianti

I believe PokerInsider was quoting someone else from other forums in the posts where he says "I'm not a programmer, but...."

PokerInsider: Care to answer my query about your original point #2? I'm genuinely curious. As a non-employee and working from outside the company, would you still be able to cheat the system for personal profit? Would you be able to do it without an accomplice on the inside?

1. You need to be root inside the poker server
2. You would need someone acting as an accomplice at a table
3. You risk being discovered
4. You face jailtime and a huge fine

From outside the company? well kids have forced the cia and nasa servers, so a skilled hacker/cracker can force the firewall and security and get access to the server but it still will be of no avail since you cant play at tables being logged in as root

it would be much easier to extract credit card numbers from the server

Nice. The credit card numbers I have at my payment processor (defo not on the site).

You are good.

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.

Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI

Jack Sawyer

01-11-2008, 07:24 PM

#55 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Old School

Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerInsider

Rigging accomplishes 3 goals

1. Make the fish beleive they are at level with the good players
2.Make tourneys finish faster
3.Make pots get bigger in ring games

I like big pots and I cannot lie
You other brothers can't deny

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.

Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI

SGTChuck

01-11-2008, 11:05 PM Post subject: wooo

#56 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: Gillette, WY

Posts: 48

Ahhhhahahahaha. Sir Lies Alot. Eskoooooo

givememyleg

01-12-2008, 06:28 AM

#57 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN

Posts: 5,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerInsider

So farewell, this is my last post here

I trust that you're a man of your word.

Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.

"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!

euphoricism

01-12-2008, 02:56 PM

#58 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

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Well shit, this guy posted enough personal information to track him down...

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

CoccoBill

01-13-2008, 01:36 AM

#59 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Finding my game

Posts: 423

Personally I find your unfaltering trust in the integrity of online casinos amusing. I'm not saying anything about the believability of this particular guy one way or another, but seriously, if any of you think this kind of behavior is below them, I have a very nice bridge in London for sale.

"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty."
-Plato

"God has a lot to answer for when standing before me in the last judgment."
-E.Valtaoja

Viscount Vic

01-29-2008, 10:31 PM

#60 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 17

Hi, i joined FTR just to reply to this thread and give my 2 cents.

I have played online for a couple of years now off and onand won around $10,000 from one ofthe major poker rooms. Also cashed around $2K from another and both times i started from zero and i only played cash games.

First i'd like to point out, i'll play for like a month, stop for a few because the repetiveness to poker kills me and then i'll repeat. So overall iv'e won my money very quickly whenever iv'e had a bankroll to work with. So anyway here are my observations on online poker.

1. I wouldn't say 80% of poker players are poor, i think the number is closer to like 95%, maybe even higher.

2. I believe poker sites cap you on how much you can win on any one individual account.

and thats it...... I have seen it time and time again after you win a bit and withdraw, no matter what i do, i'll keep running into bad situations with monster v monster but i'm smart enough to run and only take minimal losses when i see the situation changing against me. I shouldn't be complaining, i have won and i'm happy for that. I think a lot of people have lost insane amounts of money online, even most of the people on FTR no doubt so i'm not going to pay out the poker rooms when i'm a winner.

I don't know why people attack the original poster. If he's right, it's a good thing him pointing it out and if he's wrong, have a laugh and move on, no?

I think a few to many so called pros on here and other forums, reply on incentives from poker rooms to draw people in as they don't have the ability to make a dollar legally but then again prehaps a few of you play to a really high standard as well and are crushing the tables like a wrecking ball and don't want the fish driven away and i understand that too.

In any case, i believe in karma and if some random joe is reading this take this with you.... My best advice to you is to run away very quickly. You more then likely don't have the ability to win long term to the point, the poker room wouldn't need to step in and rig it against you, you just plain suck. This would as i pointed out above, go towards 95% of players at a minimum. It's harsh but good advive in my opinion.

Have a good day.

jyms

01-30-2008, 02:35 AM

#61 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,837

Ban the last two douchebags please

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

meeloche

01-30-2008, 03:12 AM

#62 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viscount Vic

2. I believe poker sites cap you on how much you can win on any one individual account.

Any way to find out what my cap is? This would be helpful so I would know when to quit.

Thank you for your time,

Your friend Meeloche.

drmcboy

01-30-2008, 03:24 AM

#63 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,603

Cocco bill - wow, I was sad to see your post. Stealing 100% of the funds on a site is presumably not "below" them either, should we all withdrawl? Should I refuse to pay at McDonalds before I have the burgers in hand? Fucking two window system RIGGED

it's awesome this thread is still going, we'll all make money forever, hooray

swiggidy

01-30-2008, 11:34 PM

#64 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmcboy

Wrong Coco_bill?

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

FlyingSaucy

01-30-2008, 11:50 PM

#65 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

ya, wrong

matt2222

02-21-2008, 03:24 PM Post subject: My Story

#66 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 3

ID like to comment on this. My name is matt. Little over 3 years .I started playing Poker. And in that time ive won over 20k . The last year i have stopped. Due to the poker ban.And something more sinster.

IF i would win and cashout on a site. Then all sudden i couldnt get 50 cent. Without incurring horrible beats. And that be every other hand. This happen on various sites. And the degree of this is getting worse and more sinster.

Ive had money stolen from me. Been told 50 lies. Seen my table flash while playing holdem. And The guy next to me playing omaha. In a supposed holdem game. And even far worse thigns. Reason my resond to this post. As i started investagate online poker. For my own piece of mind and a search for the truth. What ive found has been shocking. And is almost identical to what this guy posts. He may or may nt be who he says. Be he has some very hidden and almost identical conculsions in my study that ive found.

The large chip stack ratio is real. And if its real. It destroys any credibility of a random deal. In my over million hands study or more. It is real and disturbing.

I have noticed in past year of play.I still play just dont cash out. Mostly for study. And ive done this 8-10 hours a day.Most days. The code and program has gotten more sinster and more corrupt.

They can cap you. I know this without a doubt. I had to change my name ip address, hard drive serial identity on 5 seperate occassions at least.

Each time a miracle happens. I go back to strong winning ways. Against bad players .Till i cash to much. Then at some point. Bad beats , and a new corrupt code. Thats the most shocking of all so far. When my chips go all in. I lose no matter 9 out 10 times.No matter how strong i am.

Pureplay poker is a good example of this. But so far ive not seen one. It just depends on when , its coming. There is obviously some code or somethign.Set if the site dont take or rake a certain amount. This keeps happening to you.

Ive been threatned. Lied to . Told outrageous things.All by supposed good poker sites .

As for the guy in this post. The programmer. One reason in my theory is. That more dont come foward. Is money being first. They are paid well.

2. Confediality agreements.They all sign these. Ive questions 100s of live help people. And they stupidly admit. Or used to. They all have to sign these. And if they break them they face large penalites.
3. Theres not alot of them.
Now if i was one. I would come foward. Write a book and show evicence. And you wouldnt have to work for a company.

But some may fear their lives. As corrupt poker sites.Mob and threats to there family or fear.

I have lot more information. Ive though of release this public. I also have a system. A way to tell that a site is doign exactly what this guy says.

Just goto your site. Start watching the stacks.Espically the larger ones. It becomes clear. That the site is using shills to do this very thing. Also a real player can also. In my honest opinion .IF i had a choice . which alot dont. I would never ever play online again. Other than practice. Theres alot more if anyone interested.
Most sites hide these type of posts. ive had 1000 removed. And if im cheated by a site. They quickly remove my posts. And there affilates as well. Greed is at the fault of online poker. Online poker is in serious trouble.

Andrew

02-21-2008, 04:41 PM Post subject: Re: My Story

#67 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt2222

Each time a miracle happens. I go back to strong winning ways. Against bad players .Till i cash to much. Then at some point. Bad beats , and a new corrupt code. Thats the most shocking of all so far. When my chips go all in. I lose no matter 9 out 10 times.No matter how strong i am.

I know exactly what you mean. I think poker has come up with a word for this.....oh yeah, fu'kn Variance! "Woot, my AAs got cracked 10 times in a row....waaaaaaaaah!"

Blog/Journal
http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/author/andrew/
http://poker-wolf.insanejournal.com/

drmcboy

02-21-2008, 04:51 PM

#68 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmcboy

Wrong Coco_bill?

no, this bill used to post sorta good in the SNG forum

biondino

02-21-2008, 05:28 PM

#69 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Hey Matt, are you a Finnish software engineer?

matt2222

02-21-2008, 10:35 PM Post subject: Please

#70 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 3

Im not a programmer at all. And for anyone that attacks or flames honest posts.

It just shows 3 things.
1. Stupidity
2. Affilate or tie to a site in some manner.
3. Inexpereince./ gullible

I made the post from my own experiences.

Online poker is infested with corrupt people. Crooks , thieves alot of convicted felons.
Its your money waste and give it away.

Theres 10 people a day.Sitting at video poker lounges at 8:00 in morning.

Does this make it right? We all know that video poker is one bigges scams.

All online poker has done.IS to get programers to use same type code on online poker.

And its getting worse. There trully is no reason to play online.Less your so rich it doesnt matter.

There are those that think video poker isnt rigged either.As onlien is.

Yet google or you tube. The chips that go into this machines. To cheat people. This is a absurd arguemnt. Its not if its rigged anymore.Its how.

And i got good idea how. And lot thigns this person posted. Are right on money from my expereicnes as well. Im from the Usa.

The sad part all these. Is the total greed and sleezy people try make a killing of this new poker craze.

Why not deal fair? Same reason people put chips in video poker.

Cause people still stupid enough to do it. Even tho its a obvious scam. They prey upon weak. Addicted. Such good people they are.

Poker online is beign exposed . Absoulte poker Ultimate bet.

And i myself have seen things. pokerhost.,pureplay pacfic poker.
These very same things .That have been caught at other sites.
Microgaming. Give me a break.
Poker is being ruined. There own greed is going be downfall.They never make what they could have .

When and if usa makes it legal. And someone opens a cost effective real site. They will be in big trouble.

biondino

02-21-2008, 11:41 PM

#71 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

I'm $15k up. Does that make me a crook too?

eugmac

02-21-2008, 11:50 PM

#72 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 739

yawn

Ragnar4

02-22-2008, 12:03 AM

#73 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerInsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerInsider

blah blah

OMG, all this energy spent to such a useless purpose. And so wrong too. Wow, just wow.

When a finger points to the moon, the imbecile looks at the finger
Chinese Proverb

You lost all credibility with me right there. You destroyed that proverb.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

cowboyardee

02-22-2008, 12:17 AM

#74 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 66

Just cause this thing is still going and I don't much feel like making a new thread, I'll present my argument against/paranoia towards online poker and make myself an object of ridicule briefly:

It has nothing to do with rigging - many many players keep stats on their hands dealt over large samples, and anyway, even if it was rigged, all that would matter from a pragmatic standpoint is whether it's beatable.

No, my problem applies only to those of us in the states. Do you guys feel entirely confident that your finances will not be investigated by the government? A lot of the financial transactions involved in online poker also may look suspiciously like money laundering and/or a tax dodge. And I don't have a lot of trust in the political climate in the US at the given moment.

Am I being paranoid? I will say, those of us on Napster circa 1999 never expected being threatened with fines of up to $150,000 per song (no one paid that much, but still). And most of us playing online poker back in 2004 didn't really expect it to be outlawed in the states in the near future, but it was.

CoccoBill

02-26-2008, 09:46 PM

#75 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Finding my game

Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmcboy

I really don't see how this has anything to do with what I said and have to say I'm amazed at some of the responses. Sure this guy might be and probably is full of shit, but so what? Poker rooms are in the business of making money, and I would not be one bit surprised if some of the shadier ones "tweaked" their system to maximize their profits. Companies in other sectors, even reputable ones do all kinds of crap all the time (gray imports, tax evasion, child labor, knock offs, abuse dominant market positions, you name it), but poker rooms never would? I'm not advocating that "zOMG POKAR IS RIGGED" nor claiming I'm not winning because of it nor saying it can't be beaten and absolutely not telling anyone to withdraw or stop playing...actually I didn't say fuck all except not to blindly trust some random companies to absolutely positively 100% ever being in any way interested in maximizing their profits if they found a way to do it. Maybe that's just because I'm an IT security consultant and paranoia is my job.

Like seriously wtf, I must be missing some huge issue here. Do you guys really think a) some posts on a forum will suddenly scare all the fish on the planet away, b) poker rooms are run by saints and they would never ever ever ever even think about doing anything unethical or c) do you all run poker rooms?

Jack Sawyer

02-27-2008, 04:02 AM Post subject: Re: My Story

#76 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Old School

Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt2222

HOw could I. Have missed this? This is truly. The most interesting. Post I have. Read all year. Congrats dude!

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.

Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI

QuidProQuo

02-29-2008, 04:24 PM

#77 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Zierikzee

Posts: 10

With all the people using PokerTracker and the many many huge databases it's fairly easy to check if online poker is fair. And guess what? All odds are correct.

VinceSincere

02-29-2008, 06:10 PM

#78 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 24

While we're back to resurrecting wild conspiracy theories...

- I know who killed JFK and why. Transfer $100 to VinceSincere on either Full Tilt Poker or Poker Stars, and I'll be glad to tell you.

- The moon landing was a Hollywood hoax designed to restore America's tarnished technical reputation after the launch of Sputnik.

- Area 51. Need I say more?

- The Trilateral Commission is engaged in a great conspiracy to dominate the world economically, and to further enrich the wealthy elite.

- The teletubbies are part of the homosexual agenda to infest all of America with their lifestyle. All you have to do is ask Jerry Falwell.

- The Holocaust is a myth perpetuated by the World Jewish Conspiracy. Those 6,000,000 people who supposedly died are alive and well and living in Tel Aviv, where they wait to take all of the remaining land from the Arabs.

- Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens did NOT take anabolic steroids. Baseball simply doesn't like black men and redneck Texans.

The fact that online poker is rigged is nothing compared to these great issues.

matt2222

03-01-2008, 01:03 AM Post subject: Pokertracker

#79 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 3

I keep hands. Trying to see if poker is rigged based on poker tracker.Is dumb. And the first thing i crook would beat.

I know this From a long time of study. heres whats happening.

Preflops are differnt.WE all know this. Without poker tracker. Some need it.
But if flops and end results after flop.Are whats being targeted.It doesnt show. And Is harder to see. This is what programers are doing.Trying to be undetected. Anyoen bases anything on pokertracker. HAsnt played long enough.

Just keep watchign or gettign large stack chips. Compare it to rest of table. If yor 3-4 times or greater. Start all in. ALot. Watch times you suck people out.And watch others .

People are given eye candy. Such as pockets. Then sucked away. By post flop preprogreamming.

I truly feel sorry for anyone.That thinks otherwise.

Right now. On pureplay poker.

Ive tested thousands of hands. Every time i all in. Lets say 900 out each 1000. No matter how strong i am. Every hand sucks to anyone im in hand with. This is one the most blatant and corrupt thigns ive seen.

Other sites are just as bad. Microgaming. Programers are settign differnt levels. I dominated the 5 man sit gos at pacific poker.
Made 10k or more just off them. Soon as i would cash to much.

I could not win a game. COuld rarely get a hand. And when my chips go all in.way ahead. My opponet hit anything. This is obvious its goign on.SOem of you probablly dont even realize it. Its disturbing . COrrupt.

And make playing online poker. useless. Do they do it everyoen.Im sure they dont.

They ike suckers who coem in dump money.Cant manage and lose. They make it easy
But to those liek me who really win. They target.

FlyingSaucy

03-01-2008, 01:52 PM Post subject: Re: My Story

#80 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

HOw could I. Have missed this? This is truly. The most interesting. Post I have. Read all year. Congrats dude!

I agere. NOt only did he prove. progrmaers are more smrater. than most online pokre players. me convincd

Razorclaw

03-12-2008, 12:36 AM

#81 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 1

What I don't get is why some people get so offended when this topic is brought up. Over and over, I see the "anti-rigged" people react like they have some sort of hidden agenda or as if they were personally insulted somehow. For me, the fact remains...Online Poker is RIGGED! Seeing someone correctly and repeatedly calling the cards before they're dealt would make you a beleiver too. Pokerinsider did the right thing by starting this thread...the truth must be told.

euphoricism

03-12-2008, 02:08 AM

#82 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

it amuses me that people who think poker is rigged spend their days on poker forums trying to "educate the masses"

If you know its rigged, and know exactly HOW its rigged, you should be rich, right?

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

infinate8

03-12-2008, 02:52 PM

#83 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Simple question,
If online poker is rigged how do you explain all the millions of people who make an annual substancial profit and decent living from it?
There will be winners and losers in everything and it's usually the losers who can't get ahead are the ones coming out with all these bs random generator theory crap.
There has never been any solid proof yet,until there is sufficient proof i will contnue to play online poker.

jyms

03-12-2008, 03:19 PM

#84 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,837

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorclaw

It's not hidden agenda. We all make a profit from poker, and we don't need someone scaring away the fish with this bullshit. If the less capable and easily persuaded people thought for a second that the site was rigged they would leave, with our money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorclaw

For me, the fact remains...Online Poker is RIGGED! Seeing someone correctly and repeatedly calling the cards before they're dealt would make you a beleiver too. Pokerinsider did the right thing by starting this thread...the truth must be told.

I would like to see proof of this. Never happened

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

deacon_bluez

03-12-2008, 03:28 PM

#85 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Minnesota, USA

Posts: 216

If you really want to post all this online-poker-is-rigged garbage, you're doing it in the wrong place. All of the regulars who read these forums are making money playing online. What kind of rigged game ends up profiting the players? lol

Sue me if I play too long....

ChrisBCritter

03-12-2008, 04:16 PM Post subject: PROOF??

#86 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Falmouth, ME

Posts: 781

Excellent effort! How did I miss this? Now, can we see the proof? (crickets chirping...) Or do we just have to trust you?

WPP: 401

I hope you enjoyed your vacation...

Miffed22001

03-12-2008, 09:05 PM

#87 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

why has no-one locked this shit yet?

Xianti

03-15-2008, 05:30 PM

#88 (permalink)

Administrator
Administrator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: facebook.com/xianti

Posts: 5,289

{locked}

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Insider Information: All poker rooms are rigged