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ArcadianRock
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03-01-2009, 07:01 PM
Post subject: When can you make a living.
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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I plan on making my living off of poker. I'm obsessed with it and every time I'm talking about it or playing I'm the happiest I've ever been, plus I love the independence of it. That being said.
When can someone make a very meager living off it. Just enough to survive with little to no frills attached. I mean living with 3 other people in an apartment with only internet and basic utilities?
What size BR would be necessary or what level of game should you be playing at to make around $16000 a year or so.
Thanks. Tell me of your own personal experiences.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Sounds like you have all the time in the world to be able to strive for this kind of mediocrity. Maybe you should spend some of that time searching this overly asked topic.
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Well I did search and I couldn't find one with a decent answer. Perhaps you could point me to the thread?
edit: and I don't want mediocrity. I just don't want to have a job lol. I'd slowly build up my bankroll and then make a better living off of it.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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http://tinyurl.com/bms5kc
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BennyLaRue
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03-01-2009, 09:04 PM
Post subject: Re: When can you make a living.
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
What size BR would be necessary or what level of game should you be playing at to make around $16000 a year or so.
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That depends on a whole ton of variables.
What's your current win rate?
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Thanks Jyms even with the sarcasm
My win rate is about 10% ROI and I mostly play 9-man SnGs. Don't get me wrong, I am far away from actually being able to live off of it.
My BR is about $200 when I started with $100 and I've been playing for 3 months, but I'm still in the learning stages.
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naturalassassin
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
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I think Benny was asking about the winrate of your sessions. something like 75% is very good for NL holdem. 58% is ver good for limit holdem. I just started playing omaha and am not sure but the swings can be bad I think.
Depending on how much time you wanted to spend on poker. you could make 16k at 1-2NL pretty quick and 2-4Limit if you play your cards right  . Even more important is whether to sit down. 16k per year is really low standard of living. are you going to able to afford to tip the dealer?
For 1-2NL I'm bankrolled at least 15-20 buyins. 3-4k. But I started with 1k and grinded it out. Almost always a winning strategy.
For 1-2PL omaha type games. I've read online you would would want a BR of about 30buy ins. or about 2k-30k. if you always buy in for the minimum then you will have to take that into account. Does anyone else have something different?
For limit games. You would want a large number of buyins as well. Maybe 30... There so many beginning players at the Limit game you can easily do it with less I think. I don't play much limit but have had good results.
If you're not able to meet these bankrolls I think you should post in the online community and try lower stakes. I don't know of any live games less than 1-2NL unless they were private.
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Don't knock on deaths door... ring the bell and run! Death hates that LOL.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
Thanks Jyms even with the sarcasm
My win rate is about 10% ROI and I mostly play 9-man SnGs. Don't get me wrong, I am far away from actually being able to live off of it.
My BR is about $200 when I started with $100 and I've been playing for 3 months, but I'm still in the learning stages.
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Ok, well, look at it this way:
Say you're planning on playing at the $27s level and you manage to keep up your 10% ROI. For every SNG you play, you'll have a $2.70 expected return. To make $16,000, you'll need to play around 5926 SNGs ($16k/2.70).
With 261 playing days in a year, that's 23 per day. You can 4-table that in a 4 or 5 hours, easily.
To play single $27s with proper bankroll management, you'll want 40 buy-ins ($1080). However, I'd suggest that since you'll want to be multitabling and obviously will have to withdraw often, you'll want much more than 40 BI. There's tremendous variance in SNGs and you can't afford dropping down a level after taking out rent money. You'd probably want triple that roll (~$3000) or more.
So, there you go. You can pretty easily (in terms of effort and time, anyway) make $16k a year playing the $27s. At lower levels, it's still possible (follow the same math to figure it out), you just have to play a lot more. Vice versa for the higher levels.
Now, some things to keep in mind:
1) Can you keep up a 10% ROI at the $27s? That's a very realistic winrate at that level. Myself, I just dabble in SNGs but that's my ROI for the $11s and the $16.50s. Great players can double it or better. However, you can expect your own winrate to fall as you move up the levels. If you're playing the $1s and $3s with your $200 roll, I'd think a ROI of like 40% is what you'd realistically see from a player skilled enough to do well in the $27s. If you're playing DONs at the $1 and $3 level, your ROI should probably even be higher than 40%.
2) You're looking at a slow climb to make a $3000 roll. You need money to make money in poker, of course. Without getting a lot better and quickly, you probably won't see a $3000 roll for a couple of years, at least.
3) $16k is nothing, even if you share an apartment. Your quality of life will be horrible. Also, consider the tax implications of your decision. To have $16k for living expenses, you'll need to make more than $16k.
4) If this is your plan for your life, it kind of sucks. You're not good enough at poker yet to dive in like that. Come up with a backup plan while continuing to pursue this one.
5) You're new and I actually took you seriously. You have no idea how hard that was for me. Don't let me down by ignoring this advice.
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Oh no, I'm not being stupid about this. I'm not one of those people that thinks I can do it in under a year, far from it.
I say $16k a year because with my part time job of about $12k a year that would make me a decent living. I know it takes years to make a living off a poker, but if I can make enough doing it parttime I would well prefer it. I like my job, but my job just will never pay enough, that's the problem.
I do like to plan ahead though, it's good to see what it's going to take. I am just a beginner but even still it's nice to have a goal to look forward to, that's all.
Thanks for your advice though, I will take it to heart.
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w272727
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19
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good luck dude..id like to see how ure doing in 1 year...my goals are somewhat similar but im looking to make over 100k a year..
i recommend in the meantime u read/ study learn alot about poker, it will help youre game alot.
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