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What are some good ways of getting information by talking?
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gregh2177
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12-05-2006, 10:17 PM
Post subject: What are some good ways of getting information by talking?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6
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Do you guys use any special questions or comments that will give you information on where your oponenet is at. For example when you're involved in a big hand (you have to call a big bet or an all in)
I will ask how much the person has left while at the same time counting out my chips and glancing at him as i'm doing it to see his reaction or what he says,listen to his voice, watch the eyes. I mainly need this for when my oponent is bluffing because I can usually tell strength by betting patterns but I can't spot weakness
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Seasider
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bangor UK
Posts: 563
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I just talk a lot of trash, corny jokes etc. A happy relaxed fish is a gambling fish.
Also trying to look drunk is good, a nice whisky with lots of ice....
Some guys I play with have def tells, but I told my mate his once so he wouldnt get owned in non home games. (he trash talked and bounced about when bluffing and stared at his cards with a hand 100% of the time lol).
But I play with those guys for fun so plenty of the poker wouldnt be up to the 'ftr' watermark anyway!
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I just completed a course on the study of kinesics (which is really a broad term for Body Language) in an interview/interrogation environment (criminal justice major)
Here's somethings off the top of my head that might be
applicable to a live game.
The easiest part of the body for someone to control is their head. The hardest control is the legs, due to the large size of the muscle group. Watch for shaking legs (kinda hard with a table inbetween -- one of the key reasons Police dont like to interrogate with a desk between the suspect and themselves)
The nose is comprised of very sensitive tissues that are highly susceptible to stress. Probably among the most sensitive. Watch for a twitchy nose, or someone who scratches their nose while their eyes and head remain very still. Its a sign of deception.
Remember however that you must obtain a base-line status for all "tells". Think of a polygraph -- first they ask you simple questions, whats your name, address, place of birth. They dont care the answer, they want to see what your base heart rate, galvanic skin response is, etc etc. Then they ask "known lie" questions, such as "have you ever stolen something?" knowing full well that everyone has stolen something at some point. They want to compare a question that might induce a lie to a question that wont induce a lie. Then they ask the "heavy" questions and compare from there.
Theres a lot of people I bet who dont take into account the base rate of these things. Like the so-oft mentioned shaky hand when betting. Do they ALWAYS shake? If so, this is meaningless.
Etc.
Google and look around for Kinesics, I dont know what you'll find, but it might be applicable.
Oh, "blocking behaviors". Legs crossed, arms crossed, holding a drink against their chest, these are all done to create a perceived barrier between the stressor and the person.
Whats the first thing you do when you go to a party in which you dont know anyone? Get a drink. And while it might be because you want a drink, a lot of it is because you want an excuse for your hands to be across your chest. (Also a good way to guage someones comfort level at a party -- how they hold a cup.)
I'll stop rambling.
Kinesics and Occulesics (study of eye movements in relation to deception/truth) are cool, google and see what pops up.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Time and time again the best tell I have ever used is this:
When you opponent is making a bet, reach for your chips. There are two possible reactions:
1. He continues normally
2. He pauses, glances at you, fumbles
Pretty eash to determine which one wants to be called.
Some other tells I like:
1. How the chips are bet
--If opponent bets and places chips just barely past the betting line he expects to get them back (i.e. good hand)
--If opponent bets and chips go quickly into middle or he bets them way out or in a harsh manner he does not hold that strong of a hand.
2. Glance at chips after a flop (wants to make sure they're there so he can bet them)
3. Staring at a player (weakness)
4. Pulsing neck/chest (huge bluff/huge hand)
I think talking gives up way more info about your hand than it does his. The only time I'll ever talk to another player is when I am completely stumped. I generally will call a talkative player and fold to a quiet one. Players who try to talk back are attempting to appear strong and those who are quiet do not want to give away the strength of their hand. To me, someone sitting quietly after an all-in bet is probably screaming in their head "call me god damnit"
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Roco415
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 548
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I just completed a course on the study of kinesics (which is really a broad term for Body Language) in an interview/interrogation environment (criminal justice major)
Here's somethings off the top of my head that might be
applicable to a live game.
The easiest part of the body for someone to control is their head. The hardest control is the legs, due to the large size of the muscle group. Watch for shaking legs (kinda hard with a table inbetween -- one of the key reasons Police dont like to interrogate with a desk between the suspect and themselves)
The nose is comprised of very sensitive tissues that are highly susceptible to stress. Probably among the most sensitive. Watch for a twitchy nose, or someone who scratches their nose while their eyes and head remain very still. Its a sign of deception.
Remember however that you must obtain a base-line status for all "tells". Think of a polygraph -- first they ask you simple questions, whats your name, address, place of birth. They dont care the answer, they want to see what your base heart rate, galvanic skin response is, etc etc. Then they ask "known lie" questions, such as "have you ever stolen something?" knowing full well that everyone has stolen something at some point. They want to compare a question that might induce a lie to a question that wont induce a lie. Then they ask the "heavy" questions and compare from there.
Theres a lot of people I bet who dont take into account the base rate of these things. Like the so-oft mentioned shaky hand when betting. Do they ALWAYS shake? If so, this is meaningless.
Etc.
Google and look around for Kinesics, I dont know what you'll find, but it might be applicable.
Oh, "blocking behaviors". Legs crossed, arms crossed, holding a drink against their chest, these are all done to create a perceived barrier between the stressor and the person.
Whats the first thing you do when you go to a party in which you dont know anyone? Get a drink. And while it might be because you want a drink, a lot of it is because you want an excuse for your hands to be across your chest. (Also a good way to guage someones comfort level at a party -- how they hold a cup.)
I'll stop rambling.
Kinesics and Occulesics (study of eye movements in relation to deception/truth) are cool, google and see what pops up.
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One of best posts ive seen on the forums ever, thanks man...actually helpful info...appreciate it
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Roco415.
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STR8M8
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I believe you have to have a good awareness of what is going on around you and who you are playing with. When you are playing live it is easier to pick up reads on individuals especially if you have been at the table with them for awhile. Knowing your cards and your odds are the best tools going for you. If you really havent got squadeuesh, and you believe your opponent is bluffing, who cares because you havent got chit anyway. Knowing when to push, how to push, and when to get the heck out of the way is very extreme and useful skills that we need to master, especially if we want our game to peek or reach its full potential. Some individuals just dont have the awareness that it takes to be a good reader of individuals. Some people have these skills naturaly while others have to work hard at developing these very much needed skills to succeed. Always try to be aware and stay focused on the betting patterens and who does what and how they do it. Keep on Keeping on! STR8M8 is 1FOOL4POKER
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I think talking gives up way more info about your hand than it does his. The only time I'll ever talk to another player is when I am completely stumped. I generally will call a talkative player and fold to a quiet one. Players who try to talk back are attempting to appear strong and those who are quiet do not want to give away the strength of their hand. To me, someone sitting quietly after an all-in bet is probably screaming in their head "call me god damnit"
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I think this is pretty accurate from most average joe poker players...I don't usually bother to ask - but I did have a live hand a few weeks back where the guy pushed over my raise on the river after I hit a card that improved my hand...I used the Prahlad 'You got anything' line on him and he was extremely chatty - 'yea man, I wanna get some of that money back you took from me earlier, etc.' - for some reason I folded because I couldn't see him bluffing me twice when I've already called his big bluff once and won a large pot from him - and despite thinking that I should call both from the read and pot odds... then he flips up 22 to my AQ rivered Q.
So lesson learned.
Nice thread.
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