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AFchung
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01-25-2009, 12:01 AM
Post subject: Weird live home game
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Some background on the home game. $5 buyin and all the players are pretty egotistical. They think they are the absolute cream of the crop at this game, and none of them have any real experience. -EV gamblers who play live and none of them play online poker. Also, none of them read or try to improve their game through HH's
Unfortunately the game format is really weird. Since the buyin is $5, they insist on only using 500 chips (so it feels more realistic  ) and blinds start at 5/10
Button steals generally do not work. They call down super light, and are hyper aggressive. When I get a good run of cards, all is well in value town, but when the cards run dry, how do i adjust my game?
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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wow. seems really light on the starting chips.
how do you adjust your game? Just shove all in whenever you have a hand, sounds like most likely someone will call you with a worse hand.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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Jason
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01-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Post subject: Re: Weird live home game
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#3 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Is this a TOURNAMENT or CASH GAME? For a TOURNAMENT, generally speaking, you simply calculate your M and when it's above 10, play solid poker. When it gets between 5 and 10, you really have to start making some moves. When it's less than 5, you need to pick a timely spot to shove. Keep your eye on the blinds and your stack and adjust just like you would for ANY tournament. If you know going into it that the blinds go up quickly, consider making lots of moves early to accumulate chips.
For a CASH GAME:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
Unfortunately the game format is really weird. Since the buyin is $5, they insist on only using 500 chips (so it feels more realistic ) and blinds start at 5/10 |
The 500 chips is irrelevant other than that's a lot of chips and would probably be annoying to deal with, but what really matters is the blind structure and buy-in. I play in a similar game where the blinds are $0.25/$0.50, but you can only buy-in for $20. So, I feel short-stacked since I'd rather have $50 with those blinds or $0.10/$0.20 blinds with that buy-in, but everyone else is in the same boat, too, so at least we all know it going in. I just pretend it's a $50 buy-in, I'm short stacked, but also prepared to buy back at least once.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
Button steals generally do not work. They call down super light, and are hyper aggressive. When I get a good run of cards, all is well in value town, but when the cards run dry, how do i adjust my game?
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The short answer is you don't adjust. This is not a tournament with inflection points where you have to make moves. This is a cash game that theoretically goes on forever and when the cards run dry, you fold and continue to fold and it will suck some nights when nothing ever comes, but that will be balanced out ten times over when you rake in huge pots on the nights you hit a lot or just a little. You should play tight with premium hands and punish players who stick around too long and get out of the way when you don't hit. There will probably rarely be a need to bluff if they are always calling down or stacking off lightly.
At the game I go to, I was card dead the first time and watched my stack slowly leak to nothing @ -$20. The next time, I had a few more cards, but nothing special and I won a little less than half a buy-in @ $8.75. Then, I played a nice little session nursing a decent stack and got all my money in with two pair Ace/King against villain's one pair A9o on a flush draw with one card to come. The pot was $65 and villain got the diamond flush on the river using 4 cards on board and I lost and went home unhappy, but that's poker: -$20. So, @ that point I was down overall -$31.25 across 3 sessions through no fault of my own so far as I could tell due to lack of cards and an untimely bad beat. However, the next week I took home $47.75, the next time $95.00, and most recently $131.00. That's a real life example of the ups and downs of poker, particularly no limit. On the $95.00 night, it's worth noting that I didn't win very many pots - probably somewhere between 5 and 10 over 7 hours, but they were mostly big pots. You're not always going to get cards or hit flops or cash. Just focus on making good decisions and don't try to focus on going home with a 'win'.
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- Jason
 
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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it's a tournament. if it were a cash game this post wouldn't be here since i'd just rebuy and wreck the table :P
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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You start with 50bb, that's not terrible for a small home game. Do they double the blinds every hour? That's what pisses me off.
If you're card dead there isn't much you can do. It's like a turbo. You have to gambool.
I've played with one group where nobody folds pre and people will call down with middle pair post, so just limp behind big broadways etc and felt them post. You can do this with a decent portion of your stack if you know they won't fold pre, and won't fold post if you hit.
Think about their tendencies. While what you read in a book may be mathematically unexploitable, it's not necessarily optimal.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
it's a tournament. if it were a cash game this post wouldn't be here since i'd just rebuy and wreck the table
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I kind of thought so because you said "start" with those chips, but you didn't mention anything about the blind schedule, which is a pretty important detail. At any rate, my answer is still the same - your M starts off @ 33, so you have at least one round to play some cards. But, if the blinds double, just maintaining 500 chips would give you an M of 16 @ level 2 and then 8 by level 3, so you got to get some chips. Generally speaking, I think better players benefit from longer blind levels and shorter blind increases per level, so they have enough time to get cards and play as opposed to it turning into a lottery.
At the home game I go to, some nights they start with a tournament and I always skip that and show up late because the blinds go up too fast @ 15 minutes and there's just too much luck involved for my taste - 45 minutes might be much more reasonable when dealing real cards. But, good luck @ your game.
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- Jason
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justaskjulie
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 53
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
your M starts off @ 33, so you have at least one round to play some cards. But, if the blinds double, just maintaining 500 chips would give you an M of 16 @ level 2 and then 8 by level 3,
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Can you explain what "M" is and how that works? Or point me in the direction of more on that?
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by justaskjulie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
your M starts off @ 33, so you have at least one round to play some cards. But, if the blinds double, just maintaining 500 chips would give you an M of 16 @ level 2 and then 8 by level 3,
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Can you explain what "M" is and how that works? Or point me in the direction of more on that? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-ratio
M basically is a number that shows how healthy your chip stack is in relation to the blinds
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St8ofN8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
If you're card dead there isn't much you can do. It's like a turbo. You have to gambool.
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I agree. When the cards aren't going your way and you're getting hit hard by the blinds, you have to start pushing with even moderately decent hands. Otherwise you'll be forced to go all in with something like J deuce off suit.
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TAGurit
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
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alwys act strong even if ur card dead. otherwise evryone will be able to read you a mile away.
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naturalassassin
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
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If your play is tight aggressive with the odd steal there's no need to adjust. Wait for a good hand and raise strong. if the cards are dry, try to see cheap flops on the button and do your best to take it away pots by betting on the flop, turn, river.
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Don't knock on deaths door... ring the bell and run! Death hates that LOL.
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LawDude
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02-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Post subject: Re: Weird live home game
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#12 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
The short answer is you don't adjust. This is not a tournament with inflection points where you have to make moves. This is a cash game that theoretically goes on forever and when the cards run dry, you fold and continue to fold and it will suck some nights when nothing ever comes, but that will be balanced out ten times over when you rake in huge pots on the nights you hit a lot or just a little. You should play tight with premium hands and punish players who stick around too long and get out of the way when you don't hit. There will probably rarely be a need to bluff if they are always calling down or stacking off lightly.
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This is exactly right. The game I make my money in is live limit, but this also will apply to live no limit. Sometimes the tables at the casino I play at are just like this home game-- everyone plays every hand, and even raises and re-raises are not respected. As a result, hands that are normally really strong in hold 'em, like aces, often get cracked by players who river 2 pair or a gutshot straight. And when the cards fall right for them and wrong for me, I can lose plenty of money to such a table.
But while they can change their play, they can't change the fundamental mathematics of poker. They are betting a lot of money into the pot on hands that do not have a great chance of winning. So you just have to be very patient, play good hands in position (as well as some hands that play well in multi-way pots), fold a lot of your hands, and wait until the situation materializes. When it does, you can bring down a heck of a lot of chips. And if it never does, you will have controlled your losses.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I love it when I'm in a loose no-limit game and I can get like 50x the big blind into the pot pre-flop multi-way with my best hands.
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