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simplekid
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04-03-2006, 05:27 PM
Post subject: Tipping your Dealer
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 18
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I just finished reading the the forum on "chopping" and somewhere in the forum the focus was twisted into a conversation about tipping the dealer. It wasn't the twist that bothered me so much as what was said in the twist that caught my attention. The shift in conversation was about how much to tip a dealer. Though this is a very delicate subject for me as a poker dealer I thought I would voice my opinion anyway.
It seems to me that alot of players not only fail to see tips as what they really are, but fail to see dealers as what they really are as well. A "tip" in technical terms is called a gratuity, which stems from the word gratitude, meaning appreciation. What alot of people don't realize is that employees in the service industry depend on tips to compensate for a salary that is often times well below minimum wage.
A poker dealer, in most cases, is simply someone trying to make a living at probably the only thing he or she is qualified for, or even physically capable of. They not only have themselves to support, but many of them have spouses and children to support as well. They work nonstandard hours on nights and weekends, in an environment where competitive people are losing money. All the while, enduring endless badbeat stories, requests for badbeat jackpots, and overall bad attitudes of many players.
There is a fine line that poker dealers walk, day in and day out, in an enormous effort to keep the players and the management satisfied. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, is it really fair for someone to criticize, or target others on their generosity at the table. Instead of focusing on how much money is being taken from "your" game, to tip the dealer, wouldn't it make more sense to show your appreciation for the job that they did for you?
Just a little insight...
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themandude
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 22
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ya well you know what us poker players have familys to support, maybe we can't afford to hand out cash like that. Personally if iam losing or below my buy in i won't tip. If i get above my buying and profit then i will tip medium to large pots, iam not going to tip a 10$ pot
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cartilago77
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Tijuana Donkey Show
Posts: 180
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"I don't tip people for doing things I can do myself. I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi. I did, however, tip my urologist, because I am incapable of pulverizing my own kidney stones."
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simplekid
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 18
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If the job is so easy that anyone can do it... then why would there be so many questions on websites, blogs and forums like this, on correct procedures and what the proper ruling would be on certain situations. I read on a topic earlier today where someone didn't know what a string bet was. If you know so much about it, ask if you can sit in the box next time. Pay $200 for your gaming license, and the annual $100 renewal fee, assuming you would last that long. And show everyone exactly how easy it is, and I'll be willing to bet that you'd probably be cursed out of the room by the very people you represent.
In my earlier post, not once did I mention what the size of the tip should be. I only stated what I thought was the purpose of a tip.
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cartilago77
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Tijuana Donkey Show
Posts: 180
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Did someone miss the sarcasm in my post? Sorry if you did.
I am actually a habitual overtipper when it comes to dealers. I have split pots with them before, toked them extra when someone at the table leaves them $1 on a $1000 pot, and I always love the "for good karma" predeal tip. Lots of people think this is stupid and they are probably right, All i know is I am treated well at the table, get some extra consideration in certain hand cirumstances, and still make money and have a good time. Everyone wins!
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simplekid
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 18
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Picked up on the sarcasm... liked it, too. I recommend lots of Cranberry Juice!!!
Naturally the better tippers are going to be given a little more consideration when it comes to certain situations. I try to treat everyone with the same respect, and really the only ones that don't get any special treatment at all are the ones that make everyone else at the table miserable...
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SugarShay
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: at last graeme souness is gone
Posts: 22
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Never tie your shoe laces in a revolving door!
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RotterSod
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05-07-2006, 10:56 AM
Post subject: Re: Tipping your Dealer
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#8 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by simplekid
I just finished reading the the forum on "chopping" and somewhere in the forum the focus was twisted into a conversation about tipping the dealer. It wasn't the twist that bothered me so much as what was said in the twist that caught my attention. The shift in conversation was about how much to tip a dealer. Though this is a very delicate subject for me as a poker dealer I thought I would voice my opinion anyway.
It seems to me that alot of players not only fail to see tips as what they really are, but fail to see dealers as what they really are as well. A "tip" in technical terms is called a gratuity, which stems from the word gratitude, meaning appreciation. What alot of people don't realize is that employees in the service industry depend on tips to compensate for a salary that is often times well below minimum wage.
A poker dealer, in most cases, is simply someone trying to make a living at probably the only thing he or she is qualified for, or even physically capable of. They not only have themselves to support, but many of them have spouses and children to support as well. They work nonstandard hours on nights and weekends, in an environment where competitive people are losing money. All the while, enduring endless badbeat stories, requests for badbeat jackpots, and overall bad attitudes of many players.
There is a fine line that poker dealers walk, day in and day out, in an enormous effort to keep the players and the management satisfied. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, is it really fair for someone to criticize, or target others on their generosity at the table. Instead of focusing on how much money is being taken from "your" game, to tip the dealer, wouldn't it make more sense to show your appreciation for the job that they did for you?
Just a little insight...
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I appreciate the jobs that good dealers do but I don't like to look at it as a gratuity for good service. After all, the dealer doesn't change the outcome of the hand. I prefer to think of my tips as paying for the time to play poker. It's what keeps the dealers employed so it's what keeps the poker rooms opened.
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Recursion
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1
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"Never trust a midget who tells you you're hair smells nice."
I've also wondered about dealer tipping protocol. As someone who has worked extensively in the service industry, I know the plight of someone who is relying on tips to make thier money. While my experience in Brick and morter casinos is extremely limited, and confined to only a few games which do not include poker, I do feel that the dealers job seems a bit different than that of a waiter or a bartender. While I can see that personality can enhance my time on the table, or the ability to deal with an asshole causing problems, I still dont see that the dealer is capable altering my experience at the table in such a way that a tip is in order (perhaps this is just because I havnt spent enough time on real tables). I have and do tip dealers, but I often wonder if I am overtipping or undertipping, or what... What is a good protocol for dealer tip outs?
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seoul_child1
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 176
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a question simplekidd: is it not proper to tip the dealer in pots that do not pass the flop with no pre-flop raises?? i never tip the dealer unless it goes beyond the flop. some may think i am horrible but really if im getting no action then why would i need to tip a mini-pot?? but i do tip if i win a pot that goes beyond the flop atleast $2 every time unless it was an all-in win then i tip $4-5... just want ur thoughts cuz i dont say this to the dealer so they may think im a cheap bastard, plus this helps me out if im running a bad set of cards and barely get the blinds!!
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biondino
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09-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Post subject: Re: Tipping your Dealer
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#11 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by simplekid
A "tip" in technical terms is called a gratuity, which stems from the word gratitude, meaning appreciation.
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Sorry, this is just wrong. A gratuity means "a gift freely given" and while there may be an implication of gratitude it's neither right nor appropriate to use it in this context.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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I just played at an underground game where the rake was %10 to 10 dollars (1/2nl) and I absolutely refused to tip, unless I busted someone. The rake was so high that my bottom line was almost destroyed already, not counting what I gave up in tips.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,605
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Ehh. Some dealers are terrible and don't deserve to be tipped. Some dealers are great and really DO enhance your experience at the tables. I will gladly tip these dealers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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a dealer can affect the outcome of a hand in certain cases. for example, a dealer who doesn't like you can muck your live hand if you don't protect your cards. in marginal situations, it is useful to have the dealer on your side.
ChezJ
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Pleasebanonlinepoker
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I agree that we should tip our dealers. BUT when the situation dictates. Much like restuarants I tip well when the service is good and I tip poorly when its crap. I remember in Laughlin last year I made it to the final 5 people in a nice tourney and was in the 1 seat, this asshole dealer dealt me an ace and then as she dealt me the second ace it turned over and had to be mucked, needless to say I got pissed and told her she sucked (which she did) I finished 3rd and stiffed the dealers when I got my winnings. Week later I won and chopped a cheaper touney down the block and tipped the dealers well. You guys deserve to be tipped but not automatically. Remember it's called the "service" business.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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I play at foxwoods regularly, and B+M games are far looser than those online. When I just win the blinds, I tip the dealer and say "Here, I'll split it with ya." You can talk about profit all you want, but I don't play no limit to grind out little pots.
The thing is, when you play online you don't see the kind of edges you get when you play B+M. B+M games are another animal entirely. A player sits down, dumps all their money, then leaves or hits the ATM. You play to break people first, then worry about grinding out a little profit if breaking someone isn't an option in the current hand. Every hand is a chance to stack somebody.
Mason Malmuth wrote an essay in the early 90s about why no limit can't last. His logic was that the better players have too much of an edge over the fish. The fish wont play anymore once they get busted a few times. Luckily, Mason was wrong. The profit we get from a dealer that cares about getting hands out quickly and resolving issues quickly exceeds what we lose in tipping well. So whether you look at it as a portion of your winnings or as a gratuity (whichever definition you use), it's good to tip well.
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