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RockyMoose
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12-11-2011, 10:44 PM
Post subject: Thoughts about position
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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No specific questions, just soliciting feedback.
Been playing a lot of live 1/2NL lately. I've found position to be a very significant determination in my win rate (obviously, but I'm still intrigued by how much it matters). Yesterday's session is a good example:
9-handed, I'm in seat 2, decent players in seats 8 and 5, everyone else is somewhat predictable.
Having position on player 8, I don't need to get involved in big pots with him without a reason. Player 5, on the other hand, often has position on me and floats or raises my bets a high percentage of the time and makes hands more difficult to play when we're both involved. Still, I manage to chip up very slowly. Player 8 has position on player 5 and is chipping up like mad, rarely going to showdown.
After Player 5 leaves and is replaced by a weak player, though, I start to win many more pots. Player 8 is still playing an aggressive game, but I'm no longer sandwiched and I feel like I'm more in control of my game.
I'm an intermediate player at best, and that's not bad for live 1/2. I suspect of the three of us, player 8 was best able to handle the dynamics of position given the seating arrangement.
Still not sure what the lesson to be learned is, but it's something for me to think about. It's not just about stealing uncontested pots. I think it's more about putting not just villains on a range, but putting myself on a range so my c-bets and second barrels tell a consistent story against a thinking villain?
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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Feel free to leave or change seats if a tough player is on your left.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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I was in an undisclosed shithole location in Spain for a while, and the only game I found was on these electronic dealerless tables, which was tilting in itself, and the locals who played there had this mutual agreement that once you sit down, you weren't allowed to change seats. Didn't stop me from trying, though.
And yes if a tough player is on your left it means he's 3betting your CO opens when he's on the BU all night, and so on, and it makes it remarkably harder for you. Either change tables or wait for a fish who was to the tough player's left to leave and take over his seat.
I also love how sometimes casino degens seem to think I'm changing seats because of superstition.
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
Either change tables or wait for a fish who was to the tough player's left to leave and take over his seat.
I also love how sometimes casino degens seem to think I'm changing seats because of superstition.
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You know what, that's pretty freakin' good advice, so obvious I never thought of it. I've always told myself, "well, another player is making it harder, Rocky, you need to keep your head in the game and learn from the experience."
Screw that. I'll change seats next time.
Related "cool story bro" anecdote from a few sessions ago that now makes more sense: I sat down at the Venetian and bought for the max. On my first or second hand, aggro dbag with a monster stack raises a limper to $20. Kid on my left shakes his head and whispers, "Not again! That guy is in every hand!"
Fold around, SB calls. I look down at AKs in the BB and decide, based on the comment I heard, that this one's going all the way. Pop it to $60 and run a big bluff shove on the turn. Dbag tanks and folds and, get this, immediately puts in for a table change and leaves.
Boom! Guess I looked like the new sheriff in town, which is not really my style, but I went with it.
Got a good player to move tables. I need to wake up and do the same thing when necessary. Thanks.
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: maaaaaaaaaaate
Posts: 2,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
I also love how sometimes casino degens seem to think I'm changing seats because of superstition.
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i play this card basically every time i change seats. "that old seat was unlucky", "this end of the table has been running good" or, conversely, "this end of the table is due for some luck" etc. anything to mask the fact i'm looking to get closer to the left of that fish that just joined the table.
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
i play this card basically every time i change seats. "that old seat was unlucky", "this end of the table has been running good", "this end of the table is due for some luck" etc.
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Ask for a new set-up at the same time!
To hijack my own thread, saw a guy last week explain his preflop and flop donk call with A-rag because, "we haven't seen any Aces on the board for a long time, so it's due!"
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thefishtank
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One Pair
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
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This used to work for me back then when I was playing in 10-20 and was really a terrible post-flop player (still trying to improve though).
I always pick seats around the edges (probably seat 3, 4 or seat 6,7) in order to be able to survey the stacks and mannerisms of players. When a fish comes in, I usually play the 'this seat is unlucky card' as well and try to get position on the fish.
One time I was OOP against a hyper-aggro player who's like 300 to 350BB deep who eventually felted me 3 hours into the session. Once the player on his left busted and went home, I got position on him and bought in short for like 50BB and played Jam-Fold against his range and mine (terrible strategy now that I think about it?)
Aggro guy wasn't able to adjust, got tilted and annoyed and i eventually won like 150+ BB from him before calling it a night.
Good to have position on both fish and really aggressive/tough/good players.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
i play this card basically every time i change seats. "that old seat was unlucky", "this end of the table has been running good" or, conversely, "this end of the table is due for some luck" etc. anything to mask the fact i'm looking to get closer to the left of that fish that just joined the table.
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Me too. My favourite is something along the lines of "can't get a hand over here, maybe this seat will treat me better!"
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,468
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start 4bing if you are getting run over. a tough player at 1/2 - 2/5 live is more often than not just running hot. bear this in mind.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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Live I have realized I need to think a lot more about relative position than I am used to - sooo many more 4 way plus pots where I call a raise in a marginal spot 'IP' and then realize I'm first to act after the raiser.
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