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Fnord
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05-28-2009, 04:26 AM
Post subject: To tarp or not to tarp?
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Fairly reasonable player makes it $40 UTG (about $700)
Another fairly reasonable player calls (let's say he also has around $700)
Donk who over-plays mediocre hands re-raises to $270 out of his $1k stack.
I have   in the small blind. Big blind is a nit among nits. I cover.
Hand him the rope or move in?
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wolfmmix
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 21
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I'll take a stab and say move in. I'm not comfortable with a big PP (and two outs) in a 4-way pot. Too many things can go wrong when too many are involved.
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GahGah604
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
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hmmm you could shove and I would feel happy about it. smooth calling here is possible and then if no ace on the flop... SHOVE!!!
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,166
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I think the donk is getting his stack in either way, with a $600+ pot and him having $700ish left.
But what is UTG going to think of/do in response if you flat call such a large 3bet? eg Is he going to put on the breaks/fold knowing you have the goods? Or is he going to monkey shove AQ+ TT+ thinking he is way ahead of the donkey 3bettor and your flat call with a possibly speculative hand?
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Shove. The $350 already in the pot is worth winning and just get it in before our fishy gets spooked on an overcard flop or whiffs his AK.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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AK folds here at least 75% of the time. People get kinda nitty *calling* all-ins for a grand. Against a less fishy player I'd say AK folds like 90% of the time.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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But wont that hold postflop? Is he going to do something silly if he misses?
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Is he going to do something silly if he misses?
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This. Unless he can get his head straight and realize that a sane player isn't calling here without AA-QQ, then he might check/fold a whiffed AK or an over-card on the board. However I think the spew train is leaving the station... He's not even going to be one of the smarter guys who understand that a smaller c-bet works fine if I flat.
For what it's worth, I think Aces is a flat and it isn't even close.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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I agree with AA flatting here, but KK plays completely different vs his range.
1) Big 3bet means less likely to fold pre, but probably also more likely to continue with aggression postflop.
2) That said there is 35BB in the middle. I wish I could win 18BB every time I held KK. Take your profit and don't get greedy against his guy who might have a ton of Aces in his range.
Lastly, with AA here would you check dark after flatting pre?
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I don't see any reason to get fancy here OOP. Just make sure you have AK in your range.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Just make sure you have AK in your range.
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Why?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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So that villain is committed with his pairs. If you only shove AA/KK in this spot then it's pretty hard to get value from worse hands.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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We're in the worst possible position, no guarantee of being heads up, and because of this i shove
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
If you only shove AA/KK in this spot then it's pretty hard to get value from worse hands.
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He knows this because? @ 30-40ish hands an hour he's never going to figure that out. I wouldn't play a regular the same way.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
If you only shove AA/KK in this spot then it's pretty hard to get value from worse hands.
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He knows this because? @ 30-40ish hands an hour he's never going to figure that out. I wouldn't play a regular the same way. |
theoretical standpoint obviously
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