Sweet Move, with variations: The Sousa

**LeFou** · 12-03-2004 10:12 PM

Okay I don't know if you remember this but it left an impression on me and this situation comes up all the time.

During whichever WSOP event was won by Thunder, I remember a hand he was in HU against Sousa. Sousa called a raise from SB with 45o. Thunder held QQ

Flop came KK2 and Sousa says "all in" without hesitation, like a good poker player does.

Thunder contemplates, then asks "If I fold will you show?" Sousa says okay, thunder folds.

Now at this point, if I'm Thunder, the correct play seems

...INCREDIBLY...

obvious.

Opp has agreed to give you whatever you want if you will only fold. So call.

I don't play a lot of B&M; is this a common mindgame? Working deception into the way you ask/answer this question?

Thunder writes about the hand here
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...es/?a_id=14275
but omits the most interesting part, in my opinion: the fact that Sousa indicated, with words, that he wanted thunder to fold. And thunder did.

**DaNutsInYoEye** · 12-03-2004 10:41 PM

No, Thunder made the right move. All Sousa needed was a K or hit a set for the full house. Sousa was playing somewhat wildly at this point so I don't think you can make this call because who knows if he actually has it or not. If it was a ring game I'd make the call, but in a tournament I wouldn't. You have to save your chips for when you're pretty sure you have the best of it. Thunder had enough doubt that he opted to fold and save his chips for better situations, the correct move. Like you mentioned, he ended up winning. He won because he played smart poker and made lay downs like that.

**keyser5** · 12-16-2004 02:59 AM

i remember that. when they came back from commercial before the hand took place they had showed sousas cards. norman chad said he had taken the chip lead by going all in on 6 straight hands, and four of the hands were AA, AJo, ATo, and QQ. thunder had to respect the fact that sousa had gone in the previous times with quality starting hands and could easily have AA, any K, or 22 on the big blind. it was impressive that sousa had the balls to make the play, knowing he was going up against the only stack at the table that could cripple him. and hes a boston boy, so i got much respect for him.

a similar situation happened at a tourney at foxwoods. guy goes all in with the board J28A, with two spades. he's HU with another guy whos contemplating calling, another player tells the guy whos thinking, "You better have it, if you got it, just call and see what happens." original bettor jumps up and says, "What, you telling him to call? Don't be tellin him what to do." then sits down disgusted. guy calls, original bettor turns over AA, caller was on a straight draw, needed a Q but probably figured if he caught his K that would help him too. missed it, busted out. i thought the bettor was geniunly pissed off, he fooled me.

12-03-2004 10:12 PM #1
LeFou View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2004 Posts 2,511 Location Dallas, TX	Sweet Move, with variations: The Sousa Okay I don't know if you remember this but it left an impression on me and this situation comes up all the time. During whichever WSOP event was won by Thunder, I remember a hand he was in HU against Sousa. Sousa called a raise from SB with 45o. Thunder held QQ Flop came KK2 and Sousa says "all in" without hesitation, like a good poker player does. Thunder contemplates, then asks "If I fold will you show?" Sousa says okay, thunder folds. Now at this point, if I'm Thunder, the correct play seems ...INCREDIBLY... obvious. Opp has agreed to give you whatever you want if you will only fold. So call. I don't play a lot of B&M; is this a common mindgame? Working deception into the way you ask/answer this question? Thunder writes about the hand here http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...es/?a_id=14275 but omits the most interesting part, in my opinion: the fact that Sousa indicated, with words, that he wanted thunder to fold. And thunder did.

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12-03-2004 10:41 PM #2
DaNutsInYoEye View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2004 Posts 2,455 Location St. Louis	No, Thunder made the right move. All Sousa needed was a K or hit a set for the full house. Sousa was playing somewhat wildly at this point so I don't think you can make this call because who knows if he actually has it or not. If it was a ring game I'd make the call, but in a tournament I wouldn't. You have to save your chips for when you're pretty sure you have the best of it. Thunder had enough doubt that he opted to fold and save his chips for better situations, the correct move. Like you mentioned, he ended up winning. He won because he played smart poker and made lay downs like that.
	TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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12-16-2004 02:59 AM #3
keyser5 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 22	i remember that. when they came back from commercial before the hand took place they had showed sousas cards. norman chad said he had taken the chip lead by going all in on 6 straight hands, and four of the hands were AA, AJo, ATo, and QQ. thunder had to respect the fact that sousa had gone in the previous times with quality starting hands and could easily have AA, any K, or 22 on the big blind. it was impressive that sousa had the balls to make the play, knowing he was going up against the only stack at the table that could cripple him. and hes a boston boy, so i got much respect for him. a similar situation happened at a tourney at foxwoods. guy goes all in with the board J28A, with two spades. he's HU with another guy whos contemplating calling, another player tells the guy whos thinking, "You better have it, if you got it, just call and see what happens." original bettor jumps up and says, "What, you telling him to call? Don't be tellin him what to do." then sits down disgusted. guy calls, original bettor turns over AA, caller was on a straight draw, needed a Q but probably figured if he caught his K that would help him too. missed it, busted out. i thought the bettor was geniunly pissed off, he fooled me.
	"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist....And like that, POOF! He's gone."
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Sweet Move, with variations: The Sousa

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