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Taicho
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03-19-2009, 06:00 PM
Post subject: "Slowrolling"
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 102
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Hey guys,
I was recently playing at a local game and had an interesting experience in a small MTT. About half the players are out at this point and blinds are getting to the point where they're worth stealing (150/300). I'm going to estimate stack sizes since I can't remember exact numbers (these are only the players in the hand, it was a 9-person table). CO and Button are both tight/weak players, I'm probably seen as tight/aggressive if anyone's paying attention to image.
My goal in raising was to either steal the blinds or go heads up against the BB, who had been open-shoving the past 3 pots picking up the blinds.
Hero (MP3) ($5500)
CO ($3200)
Button ($9000)
BB ($2000)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A , 10
4 folds, Hero bets $750, CO calls $750, Button calls $750, 1 fold, BB calls $450
Flop: ($3150) A , 10, 10 (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets $1250 (All-In)
When he shoved, I took my sweet time in making the call. I had 2 people behind me and I wanted it to appear I had a big decision to make, and was hoping either the CO or the Button had an A, T or some sort of draw they wanted to play. They both folded as soon as I called, though, and then the BB threw a tantrum when I flipped my cards, saying I slow-rolled him.
Did I do anything wrong?
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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No thats fine if there were ppl behind.
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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Your hesitation was rational thus acceptable behavior, just like hesitation before folding a thrash hand is rational to increase future fold equity or reduce risk of being bluffed in the future.
Good thinking and thumbs up!
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Slowrolling is simply the INTENTIONAL act of allowing a player who has showed their hand to believe they have won the hand when they haven't. Worm does it in "Rounders" in the scene with Goran Visnjic from ER and the Commodore does it before the final table in "Maverick" by saying something like, "You've got a full house? (Disappointed) Well, I just have two pair ... 4's and 4's."
Like Muzzard said, if there are people left to act, there's no way you can slowroll. Using deception is completely different than intentionally making a player think they have won the hand when they haven't.
Sometimes I feel self-conscious if I'm heads up and they show and I'm trying to figure out what they have and I take a little extra time for that and just to make sure I am really beat. The problem is that I don't want to show if I'm beat, but I want to be sure I'm beat before I fold. But, that's a totally different situation.
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- Jason
 
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Taicho
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 102
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That's sort of what I was trying to tell the guy, but he was clearly pissed and wasn't going to accept my apology/explanation anyway. I just politely said "I was hoping one of them would call," and let him mumble under his breath until he left.
Thanks for the responses, just wanted to make sure.
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Ablarrrr
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
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You did the right thing imo, if you snap call then there is no way you would get a call from the guys behind.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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What you did isn't slowrolling. It was representing a marginal hand. Perfectly OK, as long as you don't stretch it out for 3 minutes while you agonize how you know the guy has you beat but you just have to call because there's so much in the pot and on and on and on. 
As for slowrolling itself, it isn't the biggest irritant in the world, but people really should either show their cards or muck them quickly after the hand. And if you don't know if you have the best hand, just show the damned thing. Yes, you are giving away information. I'd rather give away a little information (1 hand is hardly a large sample size!) than lose a pot I actually should have won by mucking my hand.
Finally, one thing I really do dislike is players who are called on the river who want to get away with not showing their hand. If you are called on the river, the player who called you paid to see your hand, fair and square. That's one of the reasons players sometimes call even when they think they are beat. Paying for information is a lot different than seeing it for free. If you are called, don't try to wait out 30 or 45 seconds saying "flush good straight good 2 pair good". Just turn over your fricking cards.
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lockpull
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS
Posts: 303
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I always thought that if you were the one that got called you had to show and if you are calling you only have to show if you win the pot. Is that correct? I noticed the few times at the casino there is no real rule enforced by the dealer on this.
Sorry to get off topic..... No slowroll here at all, just a good play trying to extract more money. I am sure this guy had a decent hand and was already thinking of what to do with his winnings.
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Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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I agree, you have to try and induce calls with players behind you here. You played it perfectly in my opinion. Just didn't get the result you were attemping to get. Your opponent may not have even payed attention to what you were doing nor known for that matter. Well Done
Lefty
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
I always thought that if you were the one that got called you had to show and if you are calling you only have to show if you win the pot. Is that correct? I noticed the few times at the casino there is no real rule enforced by the dealer on this.
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Basically, anyone can ask to see both hands at a showdown. But it's considered bad etiquette to ask for it all the time. (Bear in mind, even if it is bad etiquette, it is your right. I had one situation where I was sure a player was check-raising bluffs on the turn in every hand she played. I pissed her off by calling to show both hands several times because I wanted to see what was in her check-raising range. But I was within my rights. Just don't do it a lot unless you have a good reason to.)
With respect to a calling player on the river, it's up to the calling player to enforce it. In other words, if the called player says "can you beat X?" or "you hand is good", it's up to the calling player to say "I want to see yours".
But again, as a matter of poker etiquette (as opposed to the rules), the player who is called on the river should show whether he wants to or not. When the precise information is paid for, the player is entitled to have it-- not simply to know that he had a better hand.
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TAGurit
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
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dude was just pissed he lost the hand. not your fault he made a bad play. im surprised you actually apologized. i wouldn't have said anything or would have let him know that it wasn't slow rolling and left him to stew.
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WasaWasa
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4
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it's totally fine unless u took something like 3 minutes.
if u have no ppl behind u and u do this, u deserve a beatdown
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